Espanol / English

Middle East Near You

Israel uses bureaucracy as a weapon, and Palestinians are dying as a result

Palestinians wait in line to receive health care in Gaza on December 9 2013 [Ashraf Amra/Apaimages]
Palestinians wait in line to receive health care in Gaza on December 9 2013 [Ashraf Amra/Apaimages]

The World Health Organisation’s latest report — “Health Access for referral patients from the Gaza Strip” — provides details of the hardships experienced by Palestinians living in Gaza and in need of medical treatment outside the enclave. With Israel creating labyrinthine exit procedures due to its alleged “security” concerns, Palestinians with chronic and terminal illnesses are fast learning that there is unlikely to be any treatment or respite.

Statistically, the violations are obvious. The WHO report states that “two in every five Gaza patients [were] delayed or denied access to health care outside Gaza.” Such restrictions have a major impact on patients and their families. For the former, the delays can mean death or, at the very least, a further deterioration of their health. Relatives, on the other hand, are also subjected to inhumane, bureaucratic impediments which place additional stress upon everyone concerned.

More precisely, the WHO established that 42.6 per cent of patients in Gaza had their permits to travel for medical reasons denied or delayed. More than half of the individuals accompanying patients also experienced refusals or delays; applications were “still pending by the time of the patient’s hospital appointment date.”

Approval for travel may also be subject to security interrogation, leading to delays in treatment which have at times also proved fatal. According to the WHO report, for example, Yousef Zourub, a 22-year-old man suffering from medical complications, died “while awaiting an appointment for security interrogation.” Not a hospital appointment, remember, but an appointment to be interrogated as to why he has applied to travel to attend a hospital appointment elsewhere. Three permit applications were left pending, after which the Israeli security services told him to attend an interrogation session. This delay was fatal.

OPINION: Israel’s war against the United Nations

In any case, in the first six months of 2017, only 10 per cent of patients and carers who were asked to attend security interrogations were allowed to leave Gaza. The patients in these cases were awaiting referrals for, inter alia, oncology, cardiology and neurosurgery.

Given the urgency of such treatment, Israel’s withholding of permits, or delays in issuing the required documentation, is an example of how colonial violence has been perfected under the cloak of bureaucracy. Although it is a common failing in many countries, Israel’s reliance upon bureaucratic and other unnecessary delays is being used specifically as a weapon against Palestinian civilians without as much as a reprimand from the watching world. While Israel has been criticised for overt rights violations — albeit without any resultant benefits for the Palestinians — its reliance upon bureaucratic delaying tactics as a regular phenomenon actually shields the occupation authority from accountability, even though the delays are intentional and systematic.

#UNRWA

Israel’s preference is to laud individual cases at the expense of the majority of Palestinians seeking treatment and facing inhumane travel obstacles. Shamefully, in an act of political spite which harms ordinary citizens, the Ramallah-based Palestinian Authority has exacerbated the existing repression by holding Palestinians seeking medical treatment or in need of medical supplies hostage to their plight by also withholding treatment and permits.

Silence from international organisations is now the norm, as Gaza becomes a laboratory for social and military experimentation valid only within the context of human rights violations, the endorsement of such violations and a morbid penchant for observing the inevitable outcomes. In contrast to what the international community declares with regard to universal human rights, it has no qualms about aiding Israel in its imposition of death, destruction and deteriorating health upon the Palestinians in Gaza.

Categories
BlogBlogs - PoliticsInternational OrganisationsIsraelMiddle EastOpinionPalestineWHO
  • charliematerne

    And not a mention of the PA who is required to approve applications for Gaza medical patients to travel and has cut to zero payment for “Palestinians” for medical care

    • Seoigh

      You’re proving upon yourself to be an idiot and a liar over and over. The PA does not rule Gaza, and does not have any say over who gets to enter or leave Gaza Israel does as the occupying power with a little help from Egypt at Rafah, do try to stop telling lies, I will call you out on your bull each and every time ….

      • charliematerne

        “PA cuts medical payments to Gaza to increase pressure on Hamas”
        “Gaza electricity crisis deepens after PA blocks fuel …”
        Here’s one from Maan, the official PA Press:
        Report: PA blocking patients in Gaza from exiting …”
        “Report: PA blocking patients in Gaza from exiting …”

        You might want to educate yourself before you post, you just might stop proclaiming yourself a fool

        • Seoigh

          The PA was not voted into power in Gaza. Hamas was. Israel has full control over who enters and leave Gaza not the PA.
          You’re the fool and liar here.

          • charliematerne

            The PA and Hamas have not held their required (by law) elections in years. Who is the legitimate government in “Palestine”? The FACT, that you do not want to recognize, is that the PA receives the International Jizyah and the PA has made agreements with Israel to pay the bills for Gaza residents medical care, electricity and water among other things. Another fact for you, even while Hamas was firing rockets at Israeli CIVILIANS, Israel still provided food medicine, and until a Hamas rocket destroyed a transmission tower, Israel provided electricity. A BTW for you, while Israeli technicians were trying to repair that transmission tower, Hamas snipers were shooting at them.
            It was the PA who cut off payments and DEMANDED that Israel stop providing the services (Israel still provides food, medical supplies and water, mostly out of its own pocket. Name another nation on the planet that feeds the armies shooting at them.

          • Seoigh

            There is no end to your delusion and excuse making for Israeli terrorism towards Palestinians.
            You claim Palestine doesn’t exist yet bemoan their not having held elections? Aren’t you a bit bipolar indeed ….

          • charliematerne

            The “State of Palestine” does not and can not exist under International Laws. . No UNSC Resolution or UNGA Resolution or ICJ opinion can change that. (The UN Charter simply does not allow for that). The Autonomous “Palestinian” areas of Israel, under the Oslo Agreements do in fact exist One of the many agreements in Oslo that the “Palestinians” have ignored was for regular free democratic elections. Abbas is in the 12th year of his elected 4 year term. Is he the legitimate “Palestinian” leader under Oslo?
            Hamas is in the 11th year of its elected 4 year term. Are they the legitimate “Palestinian” leaders under Oslo.
            Interestingly when Arafat and Abbas were dealing in the various Oslo meetings, they had very little to say about Gaza, it was almost as if Gaza did not really exist. (Like with many commenters on this and other forums)
            A legitimate “state of Palestine” simply can not exist in two (competing) dictatorships and with no borders. I admire your zeal but they do not take reality into account. I support two-states, but for true peace, the process must be done correctly , i.e. negotiated and taking International Law into account, not demanded or terrorized or imposed and it must be done by legitimate governments. Sadly, at this point in time, those conditions do not exist in “Palestine” and do not appear anywhere on the horizon.

          • Seoigh

            The state of Palestine exists whether you like it or not, this is not up for debate.
            How dumb are you that you have to keep being told that the UN doesn’t have a mandate to establish countries, it can recognize them but it cannot establish them.
            Speaking of Oslo, Abbas wasn’t there, Arafat was.
            You can’t seem to take reality into account when it doesn’t suit your bias.
            Palestine doesn’t need to negotiate for its own territory, territory that everyone in the world recognizes as Palestinian territory except rabid pro Israeli supporters, sad really that you cannot accept reality.
            Palestine exists whether you like it or not, nothing changes that fact.

          • charliematerne

            You really are an example of a lost education. The Mandate was under the League of Nations, its Article 22 allowed for such things. The UN, while not granting itself the same authority, did recognize that the League had that authority (as is evidence by the existence of Jordan, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon in addition to Israel and a few southern African states that I do not remember.
            Speaking of Oslo, yes, Abbas was there whispering in Arafat’s ear.
            As for “Palestine’s” borders, where are they? Some say the Green Line is the border, some say the 181 lines are the border and the “Palestinians” claim all of Israel. Where are the borders? Borders are set by treaties and treaties are negotiated.

          • Seoigh

            That’s not the only thing you “don’t remember” Charlie …. Palestine exists, that’s not up for debate, its internationally recognized by over 135 countries currently.
            Where are Israel’s borders Charlie? As in the internationally recognized borders of Israel, not the ones in your active imagaination.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Where was the Mandate and the UN and the League of Nations fore the Rome people who lost 50% of their people during WW2?

          • Helen4Yemen

            Why is it the business of the white man (Ashkenazi) how the Palestinians
            choose to rule themselves?

          • Helen4Yemen

            “I merely told him that we imagined we would give twenty million
            pounds in return for Palestine.” Herzl Complete Diaries (Page 365)

            Did Herzl have an idea about the size of Palestine that he willing to pay for Palestine?

          • Seoigh

            Israel is the occupying power in Gaza, nothing you say changes that fact.

          • charliematerne

            It is Hamas that occupies Israeli Land and nothing you can say changes that

          • Seoigh

            Delusion is not your friend you fool.

          • charliematerne

            Again with name-calling and not rational argument. Under OSLO Gaza was to be an autonomous are of Israel under the control of the PA. HAMAS is NOT the PA. The land is still (until negotiation says otherwise) is still Israel and is occupied (against the wishes of the legitimate autonomous government of the PA) To state anything else would be foolish or a lie

          • Seoigh

            There was no name calling in succinctly letting you know that delusion is not your friend and that statement does not involve any name calling, it is not my issue that your grasp of English is sub par at best. Ignoring facts is foolish indeed yet you continue to lie repeatedly even when faced with facts, that’s more like a mental deficiency, quite disturbing to have to deal with repeatedly.
            First off Oslo cannot dictate who Palestinians vote for in Gaza or in the WB. Israel has purposefully divided all areas where Palestinians live and Gaza is more like a canton as opposed to the state you were claiming it was earlier which remains under Israeli occupation. The WB and Gaza are not now, nor were they ever and nor will they ever be legally considered as part of Israel, nothing you say changes that fact, your inability to accept reality in the face of facts is disturbing on many levels.

            Under Oslo Israel was supposed to have gone out of parts of the WB which it clearly has no intention of doing and yet you point out what Palestinians didn’t do while ignoring what Israel’s shortcomings and that doesn’t even go into the disingenuous “offer” from Israel. It’s like responding to a brick wall since you lack the ability to see boyond your obvious bias….

          • charliematerne

            What exactly is (your words) “you fool”?
            Finally a correct statement, in a limited way “First off Oslo cannot dictate who Palestinians vote for in Gaza or in the WB” What OSLO did say was that there was to be only one government in the autonomous areas. Israel did not create a “canton” in Gaza, the “Palestinian” civil war did that with no help from anyone.
            Israel is completely out of Area A as agreed, it is out of Area B (completely now that the PA has stopped its agreed security cooperation. Area C, by agreement IS Israeli controlled completely. Israel is completely (above and beyond Oslo) out of Gaza.
            If anyone has a lack of “the ability to see boyond [sic] your obvious bias….” it is you

          • Seoigh

            Typical hasbarabot you didn’t finish the sentence and took what was said
            out of context, because you cannot comprehend basic English. And that in and of itself is the definition of foolish.
            Israel is out of Gaza? Is that why Israel has full control over the Palestinian population registry in Gaza? Does a country which has no control over a territory have full control over its air and sea? Does a country which has no control over a territory decide arbitrarily what is permitted to enter or leave saod territory (Gaza) ? Does it demand control over who enters and leaves said territory with a little help from Egypt who maintain that Israel is the occupying power of Gaza as does the UN, EU, USA to name a few, clearly you are choosing to remain in denial. Ignorance is bliss to you even when presented with facts, you still wish to remain wilfully ignorant….
            Israel has done all it could to prevent the PA and Hamas co operating and newsflash Arafat (not Abbas as you claimed ) didn’t agree to the Oslo Accords….

          • charliematerne

            You are selectively reading again. That is a fools errand in discussion. I never stated that Gaza was a country. I stated that Gaza is an Autonomous Area. Yes, Israel has withdrawn from Gaza, just as it did in Area A in the so-called “West Bank”

          • Seoigh

            I don’t read anything selectively but it appears you do, or perhaps it’s your reading comprehension that’s more of an issue.
            Israel has not withdrawn from area A in the WB because it reserves the right to conduct raids and does so regularly at night, that could hardly be considered a withdrawal on any level when it reserves the right to enter and raid any part of area A in the belligerently occupied West Bank.
            Israel remains the occupying power in Gaza because it controls the population registry, it controls the air and sea access to Gaza as well as all goods permitted into or out of Gaza and it controls land access as well as who enters or leaves the Gaza Strip with a little help from Egypt at Rafah (which is closed more often than it is opened over the last few years). Nothing you say can change those facts.

          • charliematerne

            By the UN Charter, Israel has the right to defend itself (evidence the raids on Hezbollah arms shipments, retaliation for Hamas rocket fire and Israeli interdiction of ships carrying Iranian weapons to Hamas) Under Oslo, by agreement with the PLO, Israel retains overall security to protect its citizens (again in accord with the UN Charter) and infrastructure. There are NO IDF troops or Israeli Police in Area A and they do not enter Area A unless the PA Security Force refuses to act. That is what “autonomy” is about. You run your business and you will be left alone. It is not by any means “Independence” and was never agreed to be in Oslo. The same rights under the UN Charter also apply to Gaza. Israel has the right and obligation to protect itself and its citizens from terrorists

          • Seoigh

            Let me remind you about the fact that every country has the right to defend itself, not just Israel so don’t try that one on with me, that won’t wash here, it’s a pathetic excuse for violence by Israel upon whoever they see fit to target as they have done since it was ESTABLISHED in 1948. But it’s typical hasbara tripe regurgitated ad nauseum ….
            Stop quoting Oslo because Netanyahu was caught on tape bragging that he stopped Oslo right in its tracks so for an ignoramous like yourself to be quoting (when Israel isn’t adhering to it and has actively blocked and sought to thwart it on every level it is pathetic and disengenuous at this point and nothing but more hasbara.
            You lie, you get caught out and owned by facts, and you come back with bull as usual. One could not consider Palestinians having full control over area A (as you claimed) in the WB if the idf retains the right (and does ) make regular raids in a supposedly Palestinian controlled area , there is no country, region or area that would or should allow such an egregious breach of its sovereignty. So you think that Israel can and should have the right to interfere in the business of any country as it sees fit? Yet I would be quite sure that you would deny Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iran, Iraq, or even the USA the right to even try to dictate policy to Israel (despite the USA giving Israel BILLIONS yearly) they would other tolerate it on any level. Isn’t hypocrisy great ??
            do NOT have

          • charliematerne

            There is NO “sovereignty” in Area A, there is “Autonomy” The various states of the United Stares are “autonomous” in that they can make and enforce their own laws within the Sovereignty of the United States. The Provinces of Canada are another example. There are other examples around the world. You seem intent on confusing yourself by denying the difference.

          • Seoigh

            I’m not the one who is confused here. Look up what the word “sovereignty” means ?
            States within the USA may be able to make and enforce but they are ultimately answerable to the federal government. I’m not the one confused here, clearly you are …

          • charliematerne

            Read the Oslo Accords (all several hundred pages) and find one single reference to “Palestinian sovereignty”

          • Seoigh

            You’re beyond help, I use basic language, point out facts and yet this is what you spew out ?

          • Helen4Yemen

            You mean the European TERMITES are sovereign on Arab land?

          • Seoigh

            Netanyahu “I de facto put an end to the Oslo accords,” the then-former prime minister bragged.

            “Since the accords state that Israel would be allowed to hang on to pre-defined military zones in the West Bank, Netanyahu told his hosts that he could torpedo the accords by defining vast swaths of land as just that,” Tablet explained.

            “They asked me before the election if I’d honor [the Oslo accords],” Netanyahu detailed. “I said I would, but … I’m going to interpret the accords in such a way that would allow me to put an end to this galloping forward to the ’67 borders. How did we do it? Nobody said what defined military zones were. Defined military zones are security zones; as far as I’m concerned, the entire Jordan Valley is a defined military zone. Go argue.”

            Your ability to comprehend basic concepts is sub par…..
            Netanyahu scuppered the Oslo Accords and yet you want to force Palestinians to adhere to an agreement that Netanyahu has deliberately violated and you ignore that ….. idiotic drivel from you as usual…. complete waste of space

          • charliematerne

            According to Oslo the “Palestinian Security Forces” were to be the ONLY armed force of the “Palestinians” and they were to number 7000, in 2016 there were “According to different estimates, the PASF includes between 25,000-30,000 personnel”
            most estimates of the manpower of Hamas’ military wing, the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades, lists the force’s manpower in the tens of thousands with somewhere between 10,000 and 20,000 soldiers
            That is just for Hamas, not all terrorist groups to be disarmed under Oslo including the PA’s own al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade .
            Don’t cry to me about Israel violating Oslo

          • Seoigh

            Who is crying? You’re too stupid to grasp the fact that you’ve are making excuses over and over about what you think are Palestinian breaches of the Oslo Accords while ignoring Israeli breaches and Netanyahu’s deliberate lie about scuppering them.
            What about the idf s withdrawal from the WB?
            “Twenty years later, however, the withdrawal of Israeli troops did not take place, and the Civil Administration still has permanent military presence in more than 80% of the West Bank (Area B and C).”
            You’re an idiotic, ignorant and bigoted hypocrite…..

          • charliematerne

            What kind of Agreement demands that only one side perform as it agreed to? Why do people like you think that Israel should give Jizyah to the “Palestinians”? Israel has its state, it doesn’t Need a “Palestinian” state. It is the “Palestinians” who say they want a state (though both “Palestinian” governments want a state to replace Israel). It is the “Palestinians” who should want to negotiate as required

          • Seoigh

            How many times does it have to be explained to you that Israel is not now nor has it been for decades adhering to it’s part of the Oslo Accords? It abandoned them and has not kept to the agreements so it’s hypocrisy on your part to expect adherence from Palestine while ignoring Israel’s non adherence.
            It’s interesting that Israel doesn’t recognize Hamas yet assigns it responsibility for all aspects of life in Gaza despite Israel being the occupying power and in charge of the population registry, the air and sea access as well as all goods pertmitted entry or exit from Gaza, and that doesn’t even touch on the restrictions on Gazan residents at the land crossings.
            You don’t address the changes to the Hamas charter which have been willing to deal with the 67 land borders so you can stop lying and deluding yourself repeatedly. The division between Gaza and the WB suits Israel’s interest because it can claim Abbas doesn’t represent all Palestinians while demanding security cooperation from the PA, so it was in Israel’s interest to scupper any attempt to co operate between Hamas and the PA.
            Every single political party in Israel was born out of Jewish terrorism, government buildings and memorial centers named after them, the state funerals held for the murderers of lord Moyne, stamps printed in their honor. And one of the gang that murdered Folke Bernadotte called Yehoshua Cohen was David Ben Gurions personal body guard, hardly surprising since he was the one who ordered the assassination. So don’t go there with me or I will own you on your hypocrisy.
            Nothing you say changes the fact that the only land mass that has been internationally recognized as Israel was what was recognized in 1948 by the UN, after its ESTABLISHMENT. Not one inch of land that was taken in any land grab by Israel is recognized as part of Israel. That’s a fact you cannot seem to grasp because it doesn’t suit you, but that doesn’t change facts you cannot accept.
            You claim Israel doesn’t need a Palestinian state. Israel has either belligerently occupied or illegally annexed all of palestines land, and is making billions yearly stealing its resources.
            Negotiate as required? You mean negotiate without preconditions like Israel demands Palestinians do? You are delusional and it’s almost amusing if one didn’t feel sorry for your inability to accept what doesn’t suit your bias.

          • charliematerne

            An interesting lack of reality on your part. First, there were no ” 67 land borders” they were Armistice Lines and as demanded by the various Arab countries they were specifically refused any status, ever, as “political” borders. Second, Hamas did not change its charter. It issued a propaganda paper for the gullible International Community. The charter still calls for the destruction of Israel and the Murder of Jews. Jordan (in its treaty) certainly seems to believe that the so-called “West Bank” is now within the International Borders of the State of Israel. Egypt (by its peace treaty) certainly seems to believe that the so-called “Gaza Strip” is within the International Borders of the State of Israel.
            Where are the International Borders of this mythical “state of Palestine” that you say Israel “belligerently occupied or illegally annexed”? Gaza was Belligerently occupied by Egypt and recaptured by Israel. Israel “”belligerently occupied” Sinai but returned it (per 242) in the peace treaty. The so-called “West Bank” was “”belligerently occupied” AND “illegally annexed” by Jordan. It was recaptured by Israel. That is simple History, not “delusion” or “bias”

          • Seoigh

            Your delusion knows no bounds, get that seen to…

          • charliematerne

            I notice that you are unable to refute any of my statement

          • Seoigh

            You didn’t make a statement, you posted some opinions of which I have repeatedly refuted, you’re just too stupid to comprehend when you’ve been owned ….l

          • charliematerne

            Read the Armistice Agreements. There are only 4 of them and they are short so they should not tax your attention span. You will see (if you actually read them) that they all state that the Armistice Lines are for “military consideration only” and should not be considered “Political lines” ever. that was placed in the agreements at the insistence of the Arab states so they would not be seen as accepting Israel as a political entity. That is not “opinion” that is historical fact.
            That Hamas has not changed its charter is Fact, not opinion. You can read the current charter online (if you want to be bothered with facts)
            The Words on Paper in the treaties between Egypt, Jordan and Israel are fact, not opinion. If you want to be bothered with facts, both treaties are available on the UN Website. As I stated a while back, education is wonderful

          • Seoigh

            You wouldn’t know if education was wonderful since you’re clearly not educated because you cannot understand basic English ……

          • charliematerne

            YOU stated that negotiated agreements under the UN are “OPINION” and have the gall to say that I am , ” clearly not educated because you cannot understand basic English ……”

          • Seoigh

            I stated no such thing….. like I said you don’t understand basic English, you posted YOUR opinions about the Oslo Accords, you posted YOUR opinions about many other things…. but asad sorry lack of facts as usual. Some set of balls on you boy

          • charliematerne

            YOU stated “Nothing you say changes the fact that the only land mass that has been internationally recognized as Israel was what was recognized in 1948 by the UN, after its ESTABLISHMENT. Not one inch of land that was taken in any land grab by Israel is recognized as part of Israel. That’s a fact you cannot seem to grasp because it doesn’t suit you, but that doesn’t change facts you cannot accept.”
            The negotiated agreements under the UN are the Peace Treaties between Israel and Egypt and between Israel and Jordan. Those Treaties reiterated the Mandate Borders if Israel “from the river to the sea” and from the Sinai to Lebanon

          • Seoigh

            Again (I cannot believe I have to reapeat it) but clealry I have to but you are an idiot…..

          • Seoigh

            The golan heights isn’t Israeli territory, its Syrian territory that Israel illegally annexed.

          • charliematerne

            Actually, the Golan was in the original (but still being negotiated by Britain and France) Mandate for Palestine. It was ceded to the French Mandate for Syria in trade for the Mosel area of the Syrian Mandate to the British Mandate for Mesopotamia (Iraq). Water under the bridge or spilt milk etc. but the fact remains under 242 Israel was not Required to retreat from the Golan under the clause for secure and defensible borders. When the shooting stopped Israel announced that it was ready to return the Golan IF there was a Peace Treaty with Syria. Syria has continued with silence on the issue. 242, while not binding, was clearly a “land for Peace” resolution and not a “Peace for land” resolution. Peace must come before land concessions. The annexation (that only Israel recognizes) is not the point. The point is that the Syrians have not wanted the Golan enough to negotiate Peace. At this point in time, who would Israel return the Golan to, Syria, the Russians, Iran, Hezbollah, the rebels, ISIS? With all the active parties in Syria, who could actually negotiate and ensure Peace?

          • Seoigh

            Idiotic drivel, the golan heights is Syrian territory illegally annexed by Israel, get over it and accept reality….

          • charliematerne

            I agree, Golan is “occupied” , but under 242, the internationally accepted way out of the ME mess, Israel is not required to give it up until AFTER a Peace Treaty is established. Which of the 4 major players in Syria (or the several hundred lesser players) can actually negotiate a lasting Peace Treaty with Israel. Unlike your claim of Jordan’s “right” to give stolen property to a third party, Israel is lawfully waiting (as prescribed in 242) for a legal, lasting government in Syria that is willing to negotiate.

          • Helen4Yemen

            HERZL TO THE SULTAN: GIVE ME PALESTINE OR ELSE

            I WILL RAIN FINANCIAL HAVOC ON YOUR EMPIRE!

            Note: “Dori” was Herzl’s childhood nickname

            Letter to Vdmbery.

            Page 1016-1018 Complete Diaries of Theordor Herzl – Vol 3

            Herzl threatens to cause havoc to the Ottoman empre
            _________________
            My good Vambery bacsi:

            Thank you for your good letter, and cordial wishes for the New

            Year! May this year see something great for mankind, particularly

            for our people, issue from our friendship.

            I can t get that item in the Politische Korrespondenz out of my

            mind, if only because it is getting into every newspaper in the

            world. It has been telegraphed everywhere. Although this hasn’t

            seriously worried me, I still can’t conceal from myself the effect on

            public opinion. Therefore, since my last letter to you the decision

            has matured in me to strike a major blow, based on this semi-officia

            notice. Flectere si nequeo superos Acheronta movebo. [If I cannot

            bend the powers above, I will move the lower world]. In the middle

            of January I shall start on a tour of my financier friends and induce

            them to cut the Turkish government off from all financial sources.

            That will perhaps show them that your Dori is no quantite neglige-

            able [negligible quantity]. However, as a real Jew I wish to offer

            one last opportunity for an amicable settlement. What I have in

            mind is that you immediately direct to Cohn a friendly warning in

            something like the following vein, though in your own words

            which will be more clever and more Turkish than mine:
            __________________________________________________

            Dear Cohn, because of my intimate relationship with Dori I can

            today give you some information from which you can derive bene-

            fit, that is, avoid harm. For years Dori and his friends have done you

            favors, or offered them to you. When the Greek war broke out, Dori

            sent five physicians to your theatre of war at his own expense. On

            various occasions he had your praises sung in his newspapers, de-

            fended you and propagandized for you. The first thing he did at

            every Congress was to send you a telegram of homage. When he

            heard that your government urgently needed money, he imme-

            diately offered about £700,000 on terms far more favorable than

            the market ones. He never received a word of thanks. In fact, as a

            response to his latest kindness, the offer of £700,000, he gets a slap

            in the face from a semi-official news-agency. One of its releases says

            that the Turkish government is prohibiting the Israelites from en-

            tering Palestine, because the Zionist movement wants to set up the

            Kingdom of Judea. This is an absurdity. All the Zionists want to do

            is to settle the country of Palestine, under your sovereignty, with

            peaceful workmen who are too unhappy elsewhere. You and your

            whole Empire would derive enormous benefits from this. But you

            don’t want to? That’s all right, too! Nobody can or will force you to

            be a friend to the Jews. But since the Jews have nothing to hope for

            from you, you no longer have anything to expect from them either.

            Dori has just informed me that in the middle of January he will

            set out on a tour of his most powerful financier friends. He intends

            to induce them to grant you no more loans when you most urgently

            need them. Dori also writes me, among other things, that negotia-

            tions are now going on with the Canadian government (according

            to a report from Pineles, Galatz) regarding immigration. This gov-

            ernment shows itself favorably disposed to the idea.
            __________________________________

            If you want to heed my advice, send for my friend Dori imme-

            diately, before he leaves and starts something that can make in-

            calculable trouble for you. Be pleasant to him, at least listen to

            him — then you are still at liberty to say no to him if what he pre-

            sents does not suit you. But this way you will at least keep a friend

            in him who can do you more good in the world of the press and of

            finance than you seem to be aware of.

            This is the loyal advice of your Reshid.

            But don t you believe, my good bacsi, that this is only a trick. If I

            have no invitation from Cohn by Jaunary 15, 1 shall carry out what

            I have said above. This is my decision.

            With cordial regards,

            Your devoted
            Dori.

            https://archive.ORG/stream/TheCompleteDiariesOfTheodorHerzl_201606/TheCompleteDiariesOfTheodorHerzlEngVolume3_OCR#page/n9/mode/1up

          • Seoigh

            Don’t you dare quote a UN resolution when Israel remains in violation of more UN resolution than any other country in the world and when you have repeatedly claimed that UN resolutions aren’t binding, talk about hypocrisy.
            UN 242 says no land taken in war goes to the victor ….. don’t you dare quote UN resolutions when you’ve claimed they are not binding….. hypocrite …

          • Seoigh

            The Golan heights aren’t occupied, it has been illegally annexed by Israel, occupation and annexation are not interchangeable terms, they both mean something entirely different.
            Lawfully waiting? Thanks for the laugh, citing a UN resolution which when it suits you claim aren’t binding….
            lasting government? You mean one israel has been trying to undermine for years….. you’re an ignorant bigoted hypocritical old fool…..

          • charliematerne

            242, like most UN Resolutions, was not legally binding, but through agreement with its terms Egypt and Jordan have signed Peace Treaties with Israel. Be honest with yourself and calm your rant for a few minutes and answer this question: Is there a government in Syria, at this time, that could sign a secure and lasting Peace Treaty at this time?

          • Seoigh

            Are you for real? Citing a UN resolution when Israel remains in violation of more UN resolutions than any other country in the world.
            Tell us what was your excuse when the greedy kibbutzim coveted the land and pushed Dayan to take the land that was not theirs prior Assad being in power?
            Like Moshe Dayan said “Along the Syria border there were no farms and no refugee camps — there was only the Syrian army… The kibbutzim saw the good agricultural land … and they dreamed about it… They didn’t even try to hide their greed for the land… We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn’t possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn’t shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that’s how it was… The Syrians, on the fourth day of the war, were not a threat to us.”
            And yes there is a government in Syria, much to Israel’s dismay since its been bombing Syrian army targets for years and aiding Al-Nusra fighters as witnessed by the UN along the Golan Heights. You cannot be honest with yourself let alone anyone else, all the lies, despite being proven wrong repeatedly but to quote UN resolutions to back up Israel’s illegal claim on the Syrian territory of the Golan Heights is a joke….. hypocrisy at its finest
            ….

          • charliematerne

            Soldiers of Israel, we have no aims of conquest. Our purpose is to bring to naught the attempts of the Arab armies to conquer our land.
            Moshe Dayan
            “A demilitarized zone, DMZ or DZ is an area in which treaties or agreements between nations, military powers or contending groups forbid military installations, activities or personnel. A DMZ often lies along an established frontier or boundary between two or more military powers or alliances.” It also forbids shooting at civilians such as farmers as the Syrian Army was very fond of doing. As the DMZ was set up inside Israel, each attack was an act of war under the UN Charter and the Armistice agreements

          • Helen4Yemen

            BEN GURION; WE WILL USE FORCE AND TAKE ARAB LAND

            “A partial Jewish state is not the end, but only the beginning… I
            am certain that we will not be prevented from settling in the
            other parts of the country, either by mutual agreement with our
            Arab neighbors or by some other means… [If the Arabs refuse]
            we shall have to speak to them in a different language. But we
            shall only have another language if we have a state.

            Ben Gurion Chomsky, Fateful Triangle”” Page 291″

            .. it is possible that the Arabs will follow the dictates of sterile
            nationalist emotions and tell us: “We want neither your honey
            nor your sting. We’d rather that the Negev remain barren than
            that Jews should inhabit it.” If this occurs, we will have to talk to
            them in a different language—and we will have a different
            language—but such a language will not be ours without a state.

            Ben Gurion – Letter to his son – 1937

          • Helen4Yemen

            Ben Gurion:

            “Now a transfer of a completely different scope will have to be
            carried out. In many parts of the country new settlement will not
            be possible without transferring the Arab peasantry . . . It is
            important that this plan comes from the Commission and not
            from us . . . Transfer is what will make possible a comprehensive
            settlement programme. Thankfully, the Arab people have vast
            empty areas. Jewish power, which grows steadily, will also
            increase our possibilities to carry out the transfer on a large scale.
            You must remember, that this system embodies an important
            humane and Zionist idea, to transfer parts of a people [i.e.,
            Palestine’s Arabs] to their country [i.e., Transjordan and Iraq] and
            to settle empty lands . . . ”

            Benny Morris – The birth of the Palestinian refugee problem revisited – 2004

          • Helen4Yemen

            “Soldiers of Israel, we have no aims of conquest. Our purpose is to bring to naught the attempts of the Arab armies to conquer our land. ”
            __________
            Please tell me how how the Ukranian thought Palestine was his land? He was referring to the “diaspora”, right? That the Ukranian can trace his ancestry to Palestine and not to Ukraine. Let us assume that the fairy tale called “diaspora” was a real history, but how then is he not also claiming Ukraine as “his land” on his European mothers side? Did the Israelite not mate with European women and produced half-breeds?

          • Helen4Yemen

            Jewish land ownership in Palestine
            of total area of 26,323,000 dunums

            1882 — 22500 — 0.1%
            1900 — 218000 — 0.8%
            1914 — 418000 — 1.6%
            1927 — 865000 — 3.2%
            1936 — 1231000 — 4.7%
            1945 — 1588365 — 6.0%
            1947 — 1734000 — 6.6%

            For over a thousand years, there were no Jews living in Palestine

            In 1882 when European Jewry arrived in Palestine as Zionist
            colonial settlers, they found:

            • 400,000 Arabic-speaking indigenous Palestinian Muslims (78%)
            • 40,000 Arabic-speaking indigenous Palestinian Christians (6%)
            •15,000 YIDDISH-SPEAKING European Jews (3%)

          • Helen4Yemen

            Ben Gurioin

            “…we should prepare to go over to the offensive with the aim
            of smashing Lebanon, Transjordan and Syria… The weak
            point in the Arab coalition is Lebanon [for] the Moslem
            regime is artificial and easy to undermine. A Christian state
            should be established, with its southern border on the Litani
            river [within Lebanon]. We will make an alliance with it.
            When we smash the [Arab] Legion’s strength and bomb
            Amman, we will eliminate Transjordan too, and then Syria
            will fall. If Egypt still dares to fight on, we shall bomb Port
            Said, Alexandria, and Cairo.”

            Chomsky, “Fateful Triangle” Page 292

          • Seoigh

            Delusion is not your friend.
            The actions and doubling I need size by illegal land grabs proves that to be a lie..,

          • Helen4Yemen

            “It is noteworthy that former terrorists are honored in Israel, as the examples of Begin, Shamir, and Lahis indicate; there is no stigma attached to their murderous deeds …”

            Chomsky – Fateful Triangle – page 297

          • Seoigh

            The West Bank isn’t part of Israel, it was ceded to the PLO as the legitimate and sole representative of the Palestinian people by Jordan I now 1988.

          • charliematerne

            What is it about the Jordanian Occupation and “illegal annexation” that makes you think Jordan had any legal claim to the so-called “West Bank” and was able to cede it to anyone. Why, in your confused mind, did Jordan have a superior right to “Occupy” and “Illegally annex” Israeli land (and then cede it to another non-owner and a non-sovereign at that) than Israel has to keep the Golan until Syria (if they ever get a stable government again) negotiates Peace and a return of the Golan?
            If someone steals your car and sells/gives it to a chop shop, does the chop shop become the legal owner of YOUR car? The principal is the same.

          • Seoigh

            You are some special kind of stupid and ignorant.
            Like I’ve explained many times in basic English, Jordans annexation of the WB was recognized by the U.K., Pakistan, India (which like I explained was more than have recognized the fifth year belligerent occupation by israel) so that’s what gives me the right to proclaim Jordan had the right to cede the WB to the PLO as the sole representatives of Palestinians, you’re kind of slow on the uptake aren’t ya?
            Your ignorance is amusingly hypocritical….. the golan heights is Syrian, and not Israeli, never will be land theft doesn’t cut the mustard anymore……

          • charliematerne

            Even the Arab League condemned the Jordanian “annexation” as illegal. Back to the car analogy, if your car is stolen by Joe and Blow says it is Joe’s car, does that make it Joe’s car to give to anyone? Stop your name calling and ranting and take time to THINK. Just because YOU have explained YOUR idea of reality does not mean it is REALITY

          • Helen4Yemen

            Where the termites came from to Palestine:

            Algeria … Argentina … Australia … Austria … Azerbaijan … …
            Belarus … Belgium … Bulgaria … Canada … China … Czech
            Republic … Egypt … Ethiopia … France … Hungary … India …
            Iraq … Ireland … Italy … Libya … Lithuania … Morocco …
            Netherlands … Nigeria … Pakistan … Poland … Romania …
            Russia … South Africa … Spain … Syria … Tunisia … Turkey
            Uganda … United Kingdom … United States … Yemen

          • Seoigh

            You’re quoting the Arab league to try to prove a point ???
            I could say the same thing about Israel’s illegal and belligerent occupation of the West Bank…..
            you’re an idiot and that’s not my idea of reality, it’s a fact…..

          • charliematerne

            “Jordan’s annexation was widely regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. Elihu Lauterpacht described it as a move that “entirely lacked legal justification.”[20]The annexation formed part of Jordan’s “Greater Syria Plan” expansionist policy,[21] and in response, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon and Syria joined Egypt in demanding Jordan’s expulsion from the Arab League.[22][23] A motion to expel Jordan from the League was prevented by the dissenting votes of Yemen and Iraq.[24] On 12 June 1950, the Arab League declared the annexation was a temporary, practical measure and that Jordan was holding the territory as a “trustee” pending a future settlement” [from Wiki]
            It would seem that the “future settlement” occurred when Jordan violated the Armistice Agreement and attacked Israel and then got spanked completely out of Israeli territory

          • Seoigh

            So you’re quoting Wikipedia?? You know anyone can edit that right boy?

          • charliematerne

            Did the Arab League NOT condemn Jordan’s annexation in your “highly educated opinion”?
            How about this then:
            “The Jordanian annexation of the West Bank was the occupation and consequent annexation of the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) by Jordan (formerly Transjordan) in the aftermath of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.[1] [2] During the war, Jordan’s Arab Legion conquered the Old City of Jerusalem and took control of territory on the western side of the Jordan River, including the cities of Jericho, Bethlehem, Hebron and Nablus.[3] At the end of hostilities, Jordan was in complete control of the West Bank.
            Following the December 1948 Jericho Conference, and the 1949 renaming of the country from Transjordan to Jordan, the West Bank was formally annexed on 24 April 1950.
            The annexation was widely considered as illegal and void by the international community.[4] A month afterward, the Arab League declared that they viewed the area “annexed by Jordan as a trust in its hands until the Palestine case is fully solved in the interests of its inhabitants.”[5] Recognition of Jordan’s declaration of annexation was only granted by the United Kingdom, Iraq and Pakistan.[6] [7] Jordan transferred its citizenship to the residents of the West Bank, the annexation more than doubled the population of Jordan.[3]
            The Jordanian annexation of the West Bank was the occupation and consequent annexation of the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) by Jordan (formerly Transjordan) in the aftermath of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.[1] [2] During the war, Jordan’s Arab Legion conquered the Old City of Jerusalem and took control of territory on the western side of the Jordan River, including the cities of Jericho, Bethlehem, Hebron and Nablus.[3] At the end of hostilities, Jordan was in complete control of the West Bank.
            Following the December 1948 Jericho Conference, and the 1949 renaming of the country from Transjordan to Jordan, the West Bank was formally annexed on 24 April 1950.
            The annexation was widely considered as illegal and void by the international community.[4] A month afterward, the Arab League declared that they viewed the area “annexed by Jordan as a trust in its hands until the Palestine case is fully solved in the interests of its inhabitants.”[5] Recognition of Jordan’s declaration of annexation was only granted by the United Kingdom, Iraq and Pakistan.[6] [7] Jordan transferred its citizenship to the residents of the West Bank, the annexation more than doubled the population of Jordan.[3]
            The Jordanian annexation of the West Bank was the occupation and consequent annexation of the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) by Jordan (formerly Transjordan) in the aftermath of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.[1] [2] During the war, Jordan’s Arab Legion conquered the Old City of Jerusalem and took control of territory on the western side of the Jordan River, including the cities of Jericho, Bethlehem, Hebron and Nablus.[3] At the end of hostilities, Jordan was in complete control of the West Bank.
            “Only the United Kingdom formally recognized the annexation of the West Bank, de facto in the case of East Jerusalem” [de facto means in fact, not de jure which means by right] It was simply a statement of the fact that the Jordanian army controlled an area of Israel and not that the Jordanian army had a “right” to control an area of Israel.

          • Seoigh

            Again are you stupid ( or cannot grasp basic English?) the U.K., Pakistan and India recognized Jordan’s annexation of the WB. Not ONE country has recognized Israel’s beligerent occupation of the WB or its illegal annexation of the Palestinian territory East Jerusalem or its illegal occupation of Gaza.

          • charliematerne

            How about this one from the UN Charter: ” Article 2(4) of Chapter I of the United Nations Charter, which is in force today: “All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations”
            You stated, and I agreed that Israel’s annexation of the Golan was contrary to this very same Charter section yet YOU refuse that the very same Charter section protection covers the Jordanian occupation and annexation of Israeli land.
            There is a slight but internationally recognized difference in the Jordanian occupation of Israeli land and the Israeli Occupation of Syrian land. Jordan captured Israeli land in a war of aggression, [aggression forbidden in the above quoted section of the Charter] Israel captured land in a war of defense. [ UN Charter : Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter[edit]
            Article 51 of the UN Charter states the following:
            Article 51: Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of collective or individual self-defense if an armed attack occurs against a member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by members in exercise of this right of self-defense shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.”] You might add the Laws of War Handbook of 2005 (its only 305 pages) or the condensed Law of War desk book of 2011 (its only 267 pages) to your reading list, Both are available from the US Library of Congress

          • Seoigh

            Would ya give over, your a hypocritical ignoramous

          • Seoigh

            How about this one from the UN Charter: ” Article 2(4) of Chapter I of the United Nations Charter, which is in force today: “All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes

            How about the fact that Israel has not yet adhered to the conditions under which it was accepted into the UN in the first place.
            ” Israel was accepted into the United Nations on condition that it accept the Right of Return of the Palestinian refugees. Admission of Israel to membership in the United Nations (General Assembly Resolution 273 of May 11, 1949 ) requires Israel to comply with General Assembly Resolution194 of December 11, 1948 and Israel stated it agreed to comply with this resolution.”
            Don’t go down the “territorial integrity ” route with me since Israel has taken land by force (which is illegal according to the very UN resolution you’re so fond of quoting 242) from every country surrounding it since it was established. Isn’t hypocrisy great ??

          • charliematerne

            That same Charter you quote from also states”
            Article 10
            The General Assembly may discuss any questions or any matters within the scope of the present Charter or relating to the powers and functions of any organs provided for in the present Charter, and, except as provided in Article 12, may make recommendations to the Members of the United Nations or to the Security Council or to both on any such questions or matters.
            That word “recommendations” is a very powerful word:
            rec·om·men·da·tion
            [ˌrekəmənˈdāSH(ə)n]
            NOUN
            a suggestion or proposal as to the best course of action, especially one put forward by an authoritative body:
            That simply means the GA can not require anyone to do anything.
            That so called “Right of Return” you mention was covered in a single paragraph of another GA Resolution with no force of law):
            “11. Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible;”
            You will notice that it is not unconditional (as it could not be under a GA Resolution) but states ” and live at peace with their neighbours”. The other FACT that you missed in your limited reading on the subject is that all of the Arab members at the time voted AGAINST 194 because 194 does not refer to Israel specifically or “Arab refugees” but states “should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible;”” which would include the Arab governments who expelled Jewish refugees.
            And now we come to your mention of 242 and its preamble statement. The exact wording is ”
            “Expressing its continuing concern with the grave situation in the Middle East,
            Emphasizing the Expressing its continuing concern with the grave situation in the Middle East,
            Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and
            lasting peace in which every State in the area can live in security,and the need to work for a just and
            lasting peace in which every State in the area can live in security,”
            What you fail to recognize/refuse to recognize is that Jordan and Egypt had violated that ” inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war” in 1948. Yes, Israel “occupied” Sinai but under 242 (in the peace treaty) returned it and Egypt abandoned its occupation of Gaza. Jordan, also under 242 (in their peace treaty) returned the land of Israel that it had occupied. You would do well to go all the way back to the beginning before you post your foolish comments

          • Seoigh

            What you fail to recognize is Israel agreed to the terms set forth by the UN for their admission which means they agreed to the terms of a a GA UN resolution and yet have failed to adhere to them after agreeing to said terms, we can deal with anything else after you admit that…

          • charliematerne

            What you fail to “recognize” is that just like the aborted 181, when the Arabs rejected 194, there was no “right of return” and the Arab perception of an Absolute Arab “Right of Return” was aborted in their own chamber pots when they refused even a conditional “right of return”

          • Seoigh

            UN 181 was not ABORTED ya moron, it was PASSED….. you’re an ignorant bigot that can’t admit when you’ve been OWNED …. YA FOOL

          • charliematerne

            But it was not accepted by the Arabs. GA Resolutions carry not force in law and must be AGREED to by the parties involved. After the Arabs refused, even the UN Abandoned their requirements under 181

          • Seoigh

            There is a difference between a plan not being implemented and a plan being abandoned. UN 181 was never abandoned, your claim has no basis in reality like a lot of your assertions. It doesn’t matter who accepted it or didn’t accept it was passed by the UN. You don’t seem to grasp how these things work, these kind of things seem to confuse you.
            You confuse UN resolutions with the conditions under which Israel was accepted into the UN which they agreed to and have not adhered to yet.
            The Palestinian right of return is enshrined into Israel’s membership of the UN and its continued membership should be questioned and upon a short time frame if they do not adhere they should be thrown out for not meeting the terms that were set forth and agreed to by Israel for its being accepted into the UN.
            Israel accepted UN 181 and yet after agreeing to the land division have broken it repeatedly by taking land from every one of their neighbors since its establishment. Land taken by force is no longer permissible, and don’t even try to claim it was a defensive war as it doesn’t matter, no land can be taken by force, not one inch.
            It is hypocritical of you to accept a Jewish right of return and deny Palestinians the
            right of return based upon the fact they are not Jewish. It is hypocritical of you to
            champion self determination for Jews in Israel and the OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN
            TERRITORIES while denying it for Palestinians and that’s aside from the fact that self determination is a basic human right enshrined in the UN human rights charter.
            You cite UN resolutions to make your case when it suits and then say GA
            resolutions aren’t binding when it suits, it’s laughable and hypocritical and pathetic all in one, the hat trick of ignorance.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Letter from President Nasser to President Kennedy 1961

            Mr. President,

            “Permit me to place before you the following observations, hoping that they would, in their combined form, contribute to the clarification of a quick picture of the problem: He who does not own has made a promise to he who does not deserve. Then, both ” he who does not own” and ” he who does not deserve ” were able, through force and deceit, to usurp the right of the legitimate owner and take away from him what he owned and deserved. This is the true picture of the Balfour Declaration: Britain’s pledge, promising to establish – in a land she does not own, but is owned by the Arab people of Palestine – a Jewish home in Palestine. On the individual basis – Mr. President – not to speak of the international basis, the picture as such shows a clear case of larceny in which any ordinary court can convict those responsible.”

          • Seoigh

            Gaza is not part of Israel yet it remains the occupying power of Gaza

          • charliematerne

            Read the treaty between Egypt and Israel, Gaza is part of Israel and no International Law forbids any nation, not even Israel from “occupying” its own land

          • Seoigh

            You’re a complete idiot.
            Now you want to claim Gaza is part of Israel ????
            What are you smoking?????
            If that is that case Israel is denying basic human rights to nearly two million of its citizens, denying them a passport, the right to self determination, the right to a vote…. the list goes on, man pure ignorance and denial on so many levels…..

          • charliematerne

            While you are preparing your next rant maybe you should read a little. You might start with the Mandate and its borders and then move to the 1948 Arab Invasion to see how Egypt came to occupy Gaza (they never claimed it as other than “occupied”) Then you can read the many reports on the 1967 war and how Israel Recaptured its own land in Gaza and then spanked the Egyptians out of Sinai. Then you can read the Peace Treaty between Egypt and Israel in which Israel gave up its occupation of Sinai and Egypt ended its occupation of Gaza. Then you can do a little light reading and wade into the several hundred pages of the various Oslo Agreements that, though barely mentioned by Arafat/Abbas, Gaza became an Autonomous Palestinian Area. Then you might read the various reports of the complete Israeli withdrawal and the “Palestinian Civil War” in which the internationally recognized terrorist organization Hamas overthrew the legal government (the PA). Then you can read all of the reports about the rein of terror Hamas perpetrated against Israeli CIVILIANS (Proving they are terrorist and not “freedom fighters”) and the three wars initiated by Hamas and the terror tunnels. Then you can read about the recent PA campaign against Gaza and only then can you claim a right to cry for the “nearly two million of its citizens”. As an autonomous area, Israel does not control such things as “passports” they are still up to the PA. Then to your wild claim that Israel stops the “Palestinians” ” right to self determination, the right to a vote…. the list goes on” The “Palestinians”, especially in Gaza have shown their ” right to self determination” As for , the right to a vote”, Abbas is in the 12th year of his 4 year elected term and Hamas is in its 11th year of its 4 year term. Educate yourself and I smoke Pall Mall Filters. Read a little, it will save you from looking like such a horses behind and might even keep you from a heart attack with all that anger you continually express

          • Seoigh

            Go away you stupid boy

          • charliematerne

            It would seem that the “stupid boy” is the one who refuses to learn

          • Seoigh

            How pathetic ….

          • Helen4Yemen

            How Palestine was stolen from the Truman Online
            Library

            Read how American Jews impersonated President
            Truman and called poor African and Asian nations and
            told them it was Truman speaking to them on the
            phone and unless they voted for the Jews’ state that
            the funds promised to them by the American
            government would be cut off The presidents of many
            of these poor countries believed it was Truman they
            were speaking to and worried of losing the promised
            funds switched their vote from ‘no’ to ‘yes’ and that
            was how this ‘state’ was created This information is
            posted at none other than the Truman Online Library

            These quotes from the above mentioned interview of
            Edwin M Wright

            In other words, the State Department didn’t even
            know who was making the decisions Mr Truman
            himself has the most remarkable of all statements in
            there, a memo that’s quoted, in which he says,
            Something’s going on and I don’t know what it is
            Somebody called up the President of Haiti and he said
            that it was I He said, ‘We want you to vote for the
            Zionist program’ As a result the President of Haiti
            changed his vote to satisfy what he thought was me I
            don’t know who this fellow was that called him up”

            In other words, somebody impersonated President
            Truman and threatened the President of Haiti There
            were people who used President Truman’s voice and
            name and he didn’t know who they were The State
            Department never found out who they were, but this
            is the way decisions are made in Washington I think I
            know who that fellow was It was Robert Nathan,
            because I met Robert Nathan frequently at the UN I
            had met him out in the Middle East, and he was the
            one who was running to the telephone booth and
            calling up the President of Liberia, calling up Costa

            Rica, telling them, “Unless you will vote for our
            program, we will see to it that the American
            interhighway system is not built through your
            country” These people assumed that Nathan and Co
            were acting for America and nobody had consulted
            them at all This kind of thing went on at the UN and
            in Washington and if you want the documentary
            proof of it, it’s in Mr Truman’s statement

            Before I read this statement of Mr Truman’s I’ll have
            to explain what the situation was There was
            tremendous pressure upon the governments of other
            countries to vote for the partition program, which the
            Zionists had accepted I was at the UN and was Mr
            Henderson’s assistant and was there when he read
            some of these memos I was reporting back to the
            State Department what was happening at the UN

            There were a number of Jewish Zionists at the UN,
            like Robert Nathan, Bernard Baruch, and various
            other people, who were calling up the chiefs of other
            states and saying, “Unless you vote for this partition
            program, the United States will not build a road in
            your country; will not help you in aid or will not do
            something else” They were pretending they had the
            authority of the President of the United States to
            determine policy, when they were just one individual
            operating on their own They had no authority, no
            official position, but they were using the importance
            of the United States as a threat against these
            countries

            Mr Romulo, who was the Ambassador from the
            Philippines, had initially stood against this program;
            did not want the Zionist state They have a lot of
            Moslems in the Philippines and they were afraid that
            this would create trouble

            Romulo left Washington and flew to the Philippines
            When he got there, the Philippine President called
            him in saying, “You know, I have information from
            Washington that if we vote the way you have stated,
            we’re not going to get any American aid We’re going
            to change our vote”

            Our ambassador also reported that the President had
            said that he had gotten this threat and was changing
            his vote

            Upon this we immediately notified Mr Truman and
            sent these documents right to him “This is what is
            happening These various Jewish representatives are
            simply using the authority of the United States,
            without any responsibility, in order to threaten
            people to vote for that program”

            On December the 11th, Mr Truman wrote this letter
            to Secretary of State Acheson:

            I read with a lot of interest your memorandum on the
            10th in regards to the Philippine situation [That’s the
            one I’ve just described] It seems to me that if our
            delegation to the United Nations is to be interfered
            with by members of the United States Senate and by
            pressure groups in this country, we will be helping the
            United Nations down the road to failure The
            conversation between the President of the
            Philippines and our Ambassador is most interesting I
            have a report from Haiti in which it is stated that our
            consul in Haiti approached the President of that
            country and suggested to him that for his own good,
            he should order the vote of his country changed,
            claiming that he had instructions from me to make
            such a statement to the President of Haiti As you very
            well know, I refused to make statements to any
            country on the subject of his vote in the United
            Nations It is perfectly apparent that pressure groups
            will succeed in putting the United Nations out of
            business if this sort of thing is continued and I am
            very anxious that it be stopped Harry S Truman

            That’s an official document Somebody represented
            himself as the President of the United States to some
            foreign countries This was the kind of threat that the
            Zionists used to change votes at that last session
            when finally it was voted by a small majority of two or
            three”

            https://www.trumanlibrary.ORG/oralhist/wright.htm

          • Helen4Yemen

            Is the Ashkenazi grandma’s land POLAND or PALESTINE?

            Harry Katz DNA
            99.9% European
            0% Middle Eastern

            https://ancestry.COM/dna/ethnicity/E59C79DB-8EFC-4051-9878-5E78B6DFE86D/share/e3f7a96f-3e0f-4aa2-8b42-6a50874ce6f8/9cc5e907-5c6c-4572-95f2-1992625918dc

          • Helen4Yemen

            People forget that the reason that Herzl was received by
            emperors and prime minsters was because he had
            finally arrived with the solution for the “Jewish
            Question”. Europe wanted the removal of its Jewry and
            Herzl told them how to achieve that:

            Russian Minister of Finance Witte.

            “ I used to say to the late Emperor Alexander III:
            ‘Your Majesty, if it is possible to drown the 6 or 7 million
            Jews in the Black Sea, I have absolutely no objection to
            it. But if it isn’t possible, we must let them live.’

            From page 1530 – The Complete Diaries of Theodor Herzl

          • Helen4Yemen

            “The charter still calls for the destruction of
            Israel and the Murder of Jews.”

            What percent of those Jews now in Palestine are
            native to that land? Here is a list where the termites
            came from and tell me if there is any group who can
            be considered native?

            Algeria … Argentina … Australia … Austria … Azerbaijan … …
            Belarus … Belgium … Bulgaria … Canada … China … Czech
            Republic … Egypt … Ethiopia … France … Hungary … India …
            Iraq … Ireland … Italy … Libya … Lithuania … Morocco …
            Netherlands … Nigeria … Pakistan … Poland … Romania …
            Russia … South Africa … Spain … Syria … Tunisia … Turkey
            Uganda … United Kingdom … United States … Yemen

          • Helen4Yemen

            It is a simple question.
            Is PALESTINE or POLAND the Ashkenazi grandma’s land?

            Harry Katz DNA
            99.9% European
            0% Middle Eastern

            https://ancestry.COM/dna/ethnicity/E59C79DB-8EFC-4051-9878-5E78B6DFE86D/share/e3f7a96f-3e0f-4aa2-8b42-6a50874ce6f8/9cc5e907-5c6c-4572-95f2-1992625918dc

          • Helen4Yemen

            Amazing to see a squatting European Jew putting Palestinian in quotes:

            Jabotinsky – The Iron Wall – 1923

            A voluntary reconciliation with the Arabs is out of the
            question either now or in the future. If you wish to
            colonize a land in which people are already living,
            you must provide a garrison for the land, or find some rich
            man or benefactor who will provide a garrison on your
            behalf. Or else-or else, give up your colonization,
            for without an armed force which will render physically
            impossible any attempt to destroy or prevent this
            colonization, colonization is impossible,
            not difficult, not dangerous, but IMPOSSIBLE!… Zionism is a
            colonization adventure and therefore it stands or
            falls by the question of armed force. It is important… to
            speak Hebrew, but, unfortunately, it is even more
            important to be able to shoot – or else I am through with
            playing at colonizing.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Did the UN own the land to give it to Europe’s Jewry?

          • Helen4Yemen

            100% of Palestine is Arab – and stolen by Europe’s Jewry.

            100% of the Jews in Palestine are foreign to Palestine. The Jews came
            from these countries and are indigenous to their countries of origin.

            Algeria … Argentina … Australia … Austria … Azerbaijan … Belarus … Belgium … Bulgaria … Canada … China … Czech Republic … Egypt … Ethiopia … France … Hungary … India … Iraq … Ireland … Italy … Libya … Lithuania … Morocco … Netherlands … Nigeria … Pakistan … Poland … Romania … Russia … South Africa … Spain … Syria … Tunisia … Turkey … Uganda … United Kingdom … United States … Yemen …

          • Helen4Yemen

            You still need to tell me how the white man known as the
            Ashkenazi (who makes up 95% of world Jewry) is connected to that land?

            Name………………………. European……. Middle Eastern
            1) Alex Feinberg…………… 99.8% …………… 0%
            2) Dershowitz DNA………. 99.9% …………….0%
            3) Rabbi Hammerman…,,, 99.9% …………… 0%
            4) Tony Kushner…………… 99.9% …………….0%
            5) Joseph Cohen………….. 99.8% …………… 0%
            6) Bill Maher…………………..99.9% ……………..0%
            7) Neil Gaiman……………… 99.9% …………… .0%
            8) Jill Sobule………….. …….99.9% ……………..0%
            9) Alisa R Doctoroff…….. ..98.0% …………….. 0%
            10) A.J. Jacobs………………99.9% ……………. 0%

          • Helen4Yemen

            The word “Israeli” is a fake word created by attaching an Arabic suffix of the letter “I”.
            Why would the white man create his name copying from Muslim countries? “Israel + I
            is the only non-Muslim nationality name ending in I. Why must you steal all that is Arab?

            Afghanistani … Azerbaijani … Bahraini … Bangladeshi … Iraqi … Kazakhstani …
            Kuwaiti … Kyrgyzstani … Omani … Pakistani … Qatari … Saudi … Somali …
            Tajikistani … Turkmenistani … Emirati … Uzbekistani … Yemeni …

            ________________
            Suffix .. Origin
            -ian .. Latin
            -ean .. Latin
            -an .. Latin
            -ese .. Latin → Italian
            -er .. Latin → Germanic
            -ic .. Latin → Germanic
            -ish .. Germanic
            -i .. Arabic

          • Helen4Yemen

            There are no Jews in the entire world who originate from that land …
            all the Jews now on that land are migrants.

          • Helen4Yemen

            The word “Israeli” is a fake word that was invented only the day before foreign Jews declared a state on stolen Arab land. It was created by using the word “Israel” + I which is an Arabic suffix. All the nationalities that end with the letter I are Muslim countries except for this fake state who had to borrow an Arabic suffix to create a fake identity.

            Afghanistani … Azerbaijani … Bahraini … Bangladeshi … Iraqi … Kazakhstani …
            Kuwaiti … Kyrgyzstani … Omani … Pakistani … Qatari … Saudi … Somali …
            Tajikistani … Turkmenistani … Emirati … Uzbekistani … Yemeni …

            Suffix .. Origin
            -ian .. Latin
            -ean .. Latin
            -an .. Latin
            -ese .. Latin → Italian
            -er .. Latin → Germanic
            -ic .. Latin → Germanic
            -ish .. Germanic
            -i .. Arabic

          • Helen4Yemen

            Did you perhaps meant to say your papa Abraham’s Israelite Land?

            Israel+i is a fake and invented word, is it not?
            When did the word come into use? The day
            before white Jewry declared a state on Arab land.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Is there a single “Israeli” who can trace his ancestry to Palestine?

            Yes or no?

          • Helen4Yemen

            Is there any reason for the white man (Ashkenazi) to linger on stolen land?

            Is Palestine is grandma or grandpa’s land?

          • charliematerne

            PS:
            “Gazans Blame Palestinian Authority’s Medical Exit Refusals …”
            “PA refuses to let sick Gazans leave to seek treatment …”
            “Hamas: PA Killing Gaza Babies”

          • Seoigh

            P.S:
            Israel controls all who enter and leave Gaza not Palestinians or Palestine (which you deny exists) …..
            Your bi polar is showing….

          • charliematerne

            I do not deny the “Palestinians” exist, they were created in 1964 as a “People” I deny that they have any long term residency on the land such as some of your ilk claim. I dent that a “State of Palestine” can exist without borders or a government (not several governments) There is nothing “bi polar ” about the truth

          • Seoigh

            Everyone living under the British mandate was a Palestinian which included an overwhelming majority of Palestinian Muslims and Christians over Jews in the region prior to the establishment of Israel.
            The British mandate ended prior to 1964. Do try to accept facts even when they don’t suit your bias or your lies.

          • charliematerne

            Just as a PS to my comment about GA194, “Significantly, all six Arab League countries then represented at the UN – Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Syria and Yemen, all of which were parties to the conflict in question – voted against the resolution”
            I capitalized and placed in quotation marks the word “People” to emphasize that word. Prior to 1964 when the PLO and the Russians made use of the term for political and military reasons, most of the Arabs in the geographic area called “Palestine” simply referred to themselves as “Arabs” Yes, the British referred to everyone as “Palestinian” but the Arabs did not use that term for themselves. Please educate yourself on something other than hate and propaganda. You seem to have the potential for intelligent conversation, you just refuse to allow it

          • Seoigh

            You come across as so ignorant of facts that don’t suit that you are willing to block out those very facts because they don’t suit your bias.
            Palestinians existed decades prior to 1964, nothing you say changes that fact….
            Palestinians have been seeking recognition since prior to World War One. You clearly have no capacity for intelligent discourse when the facts go against your bias.

          • Helen4Yemen

            You mean the British referred to the TERMITES – (the European migrants) who
            were sent to live off haluka (welfare) as “Palestinian”? If the TERMITES went back
            home to Poland, did the Poles refer to them as “Palestinian” or “Żydowski”?

          • charliematerne

            Please tell me, is there any point to your insanity

          • Helen4Yemen

            Give one good reason why “Haluka Jews” (came to live off welfare)
            were call Palestinians? Why would anyone refer to the white man as
            Palestinian? The white Jew sticks out as European just like the French
            tourists in Kenya. Why would anyone refer to the white man known as the
            Ashkenazi as PALESTINIAN? Is his ancestry from Palestine or from POLAND?

          • Helen4Yemen

            You said the German Jew was no more “Jude” but “Palestinian”
            once his German ^ss landed on Palestinian soil. Right?

          • Helen4Yemen

            Rep. Hank Johnson (D., Ga.)

            EUROPEAN TERMITES arriving on Arab land.

            ♦ There has been a steady [stream],
            almost like termites can get into a residence and
            eat before you know that you’ve been eaten up
            and you fall in on yourself, there has been settlement
            activity that has marched forward with impunity and
            at an ever increasing rate to the point where it has
            become alarming,

            ♦ It has come to the point that occupation,
            with highways that cut through Palestinian land, with
            walls that go up, with the inability or the restriction,
            with the illegality of Palestinians being able to travel
            on those roads and those roads cutting off Palestinian
            neighborhoods from each other, and then with the
            building of walls and the building of check points that
            restrict movement of Palestinians. We’ve gotten to
            the point where the thought of a Palestinian
            homeland gets further and further removed from
            reality.

            ♦ You see one home after another being
            appropriated by Jewish people who come in to claim
            that land just because somebody did not spend the
            night there. The home their [Palestinian] ancestors
            lived in for generations becomes an Israeli home and
            a flag goes up, the Palestinians are barred from flying
            flags in their own neighborhoods.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Give me a good reason why Jaobtinsky referred to them as
            PALESTINIAN ARABS in 1923?

            “Colonization itself has its own explanation, integral and
            inescapable, and understood by every Arab and every Jew with
            his wits about him. Colonization can have only one goal. For the
            Palestinian Arabs this goal is inadmissible. This is in the
            nature of things. To change that nature is impossible.”
            ……………………………………………………………………………………

            The Iron Wall – 1923

          • Helen4Yemen

            There were no indigenous Jews in Palestine when the Ashkenazi arrived to colonize the land.

            Year ……. Muslims …… Christian …… Jews
            1851 …… 300,000 …… 27,000 …… 13,000
            1861 …… 325,000 …… 31,000 …… 13,000
            1878 …… 386,320 …… 40,588 …… 13,942
            1879 …… 390,597 …… 41,331 …… 14,197
            1880 …… 394,935 …… 41,089 …… 14,460
            1881 …… 399,334 …… 42,864 …… 14,731
            1882 …… 403,795 …… 43,659 …… 15,011 Ashkenazi arrived

          • Helen4Yemen

            How many of the Jews were Yiddish speaking European “termites” migrants?

            All of them! There are no more indigenous Palestinian Jews anywhere in the world
            as they became Muslims and Christians over the centuries.

            Year ……. Muslims …… Christian …… Jews
            1851 …… 300,000 …… 27,000 …… 13,000
            1861 …… 325,000 …… 31,000 …… 13,000
            1878 …… 386,320 …… 40,588 …… 13,942
            1879 …… 390,597 …… 41,331 …… 14,197
            1880 …… 394,935 …… 41,089 …… 14,460
            1881 …… 399,334 …… 42,864 …… 14,731
            1882 …… 403,795 …… 43,659 …… 15,011 Ashkenazi arrived

          • Helen4Yemen

            Please tell me what land was the white man known as
            Herzl referring to as his “land of his fathers”?

            From Herzl’s Complete Diaries:

            Page 719 With deepest reverence a delegation of
            sons of Israel approaches the German Kaiser in the
            country which was our fathers and no longer belongs
            to us.

            Page 720 This is the land of our fathers, a land
            suitable for colonization and cultivation. Your Majesty
            has seen the country. It cries out for people to work
            it.

            Page 738 We approached
            the land of our fathers with mixed feelings. Strange
            what emotions this desolate country stirs up in most
            people.