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Astonishing as it may seem, chanting ‘Viva Palestina’ could soon be a ‘hate crime’

Pro-Palestinian protestors outside Downing Street on September 9, 2015, gathering against the visit of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
Pro-Palestinian protestors outside Downing Street on September 9, 2015, gathering against the visit of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu

“Viva Palestina” is an enduring chant along with “Long Live Palestine” and “Long Live Gaza”, all of which are often used by human rights activists and others who want to show their support and goodwill for the long life and well-being of the state and its people. However, using such slogans and messages of solidarity could soon become a hate crime in Scotland, a nation which has often been praised for its refusal to give unconditional support to Israel and its brutal military occupation of Palestine.

To the astonishment of legal observers and human rights activists, a landmark trial is set to go ahead in Aberdeen after Scottish Palestine Solidarity Campaign (SPSC) member Alister Coutts, 56, was charged with “acting in a racially aggravated manner with intent to cause distress and alarm”. His “crime” was to utter “Viva Palestina” next to the Jericho Cosmetics stall in the city’s Union Square shopping mall.

His arrest, charge and impending court appearance has now fuelled speculation that pro-Israel Zionist groups in Scotland are exerting undue pressure on the authorities to “get tough” with SPSC and other Palestinian-supporting groups. Following an initial crime investigation the police will send a report to the local Procurator Fiscal, who will consider the content and decide whether to take any further action.

While such decisions are said to be taken in the public interest, the disclosure of a host of secret email exchanges between the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal service on one hand, and Zionist organisations on the other, has alarmed SPSC, which says that they reveal the existence of a “cosy relationship” between the public prosecutor and the pro-Israel lobby in Scotland. The emails came to light after a Freedom of Information request was made to the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service in Edinburgh. SPSC officials are now scrutinising the content of the dossier before making public its findings.

“It is extremely sinister for anyone to be charged with expressing the idea of saying ‘long live’ to a community,” commented SPSC co-founder Mick Napier. “The charge therefore seems to have a patina of wishing harm to the Palestinian people. If so, this is certainly breaking new ground in the Scottish legal system; that by saying ‘Viva Palestina’ you are considered to be attacking someone.”

After Coutts had said “Viva Palestina” a policeman arrived and ordered him to leave the shopping mall, a request which, his defence team will argue, was in itself illegal. As soon as he stepped outside, he was handcuffed, held for seven hours and charged.

“He is now deemed to be a racist for saying Viva Palestina in the vicinity of a cosmetics stall,” Napier pointed out. “In the meantime, we are examining what some might regard as the overly-chummy emails.”

The trial, expected to commence next month, comes amidst the backdrop of a nationwide campaign by SPSC against the Israeli-linked cosmetics firm Jericho SkinCare. The group accuses the firm of using minerals extracted from the Dead Sea on the coast of the illegally-occupied West Bank, which is Palestinian territory. SPSC notes that the extraction and commercialisation of resources from an occupied territory breaches UN conventions and it has launched a boycott campaign against a number of cosmetic firms linked to the practice and is lobbying for them to be removed from Scottish shopping centres.

According to Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East (CJPME), Dead Sea products are linked closely to the commercial viability of Israel’s illegal settlements and are targeted as part of the global boycott movement. The organisation has produced a fact sheet outlining the legal position. Jericho SkinCare’s website states that the company’s products are “based on Dead Sea minerals”.

A Crown Office spokesman said that he was unable to comment on ongoing criminal cases [sic] but added: “The Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service corresponds with many community and faith groups, particularly in relation to the impact of hate crime in their communities. All prosecution decisions are taken following an independent and thorough assessment of the available evidence.”

Let’s see what this translates to in practice.

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  • Blake

    Surreal

  • Helen4Yemen

    {Israel’s illegal settlements }

    The foreign entity itself in its entirety is an illegal settlement.
    Anyone, please, come forward and give me one good reason why
    European Ashkenazis are on Arab land.
    What connects the Ashkenazis to Palestine?

    • neluroman

      First off, it is not an Arab land, or at least it was not Arabic before the seventh century, when Arabs conquered it. Therefore, we speak here of a land conquered by sword in the VIIth century and lost to sword in the XXth century. What can it be that that makes the VIIth century conquer of Palestine morally valid and the XXth century re- conquer of Palestine immoral? Seriously, what? Yes, if Arabs “conquered” Palestine with an army of people like Shakespeare, Byron, Gandhi, Michelangelo.Leonardo Davinci, Einstein, yes, then I would understand Arab’s complains. But once what they conquered the land with warlords like Caliph Abu Bakr and Caliph Umar, and lost it to army generals like General Ben Gurion, then I don’t see any valid complain here. Do you see any, Helen? In conclusion, if you conquer someone by sword, you have no any moral right to complain when someone else conquers you in the same way, right? Of course, this cycle of conquer and re-conquer cannot last forever, someone must put a end to it. And that is what Israel has been trying for years. But all its so far attempts for a real peace treaty have been equal to “(0)”, as long as the Palestinians (Arabs) don’t accept they lost the Israelis-Arabs wars. For them, it doesn’t matter than the wars they win, when they lose, they have the tendency to “forget”.Yes, but the Jews don’t forget, and that is why the situation is that volatile in Palestine. At the very moment when the Palestinians become more connected to reality, a peaceful end to these endless wars will be found, there are no doubts about it.

      • PJ London

        So when the Persians come and clean the land of Jews and resettle and restrict them to what is now Gaza, with no access to the sea or any means of production, you will be fine with such actions.
        Live by the sword and you will die by the sword.
        When in retaliation for boycotts and economic warfare against the German people, the Nazi government transferred the Jewish population to ‘Work Camps” it was OK as Germany was not the ancestral home of any Jewish people.
        Whilst I understand that you get paid for your nonsense, don’t you have any shame?

        • neluroman

          It was the Persian King Cyrus the Great who liberated the Hebrews from Babylonian slavery, and not vice versa, you genius. In fact, it was the Assyrian monarch, Sargon II (721-705 BC), who first
          forcefully relocated Hebrews after the conquest of Israel ( the northern
          kingdom of the Hebrews) to other areas of the Assyrian Empire. And this was a comparatively mild deportation, perfectly in line with Assyrian practice,of the conquered territories. And it was not about any territorial restriction, as you pretend, in fact, the Hebrews deported from
          Israel seem to have blended in with Assyrian society and, by the time
          Nebuchadnezzar II conquest of Judah (587 BC), the southern kingdom of the
          Hebrews, the Israelites deported by Sargon II have disappeared nameless and
          faceless into the sands of northern Mesopotamia. It was then that the King Cyrus of Persia allowed the Jews to return to their
          homeland. He was probably motivated
          primarily by the desire to have someone else
          rebuild Palestine and turn it a Persian province.a source of income for the empire.
          “When in retaliation for boycotts and economic warfare against the German
          people, the Nazi government transferred the Jewish population to ‘Work
          Camps,” you claim. What ” boycotts and economic warfare “are you talking about? PJ London, I didn say that something is good and something else is bad. I only said that if you conquer a land by sword, you have no right to complain if a former owner of that land re-conquers it by the same means. Whilst I understand that you are a “catastrophe” in history, is this post an “accident” or usually you write first and think after ?

          • PJ London

            In case you did not realise, I was speaking of the future not 2.500 years ago.
            24 march 1933 Judea declared war on Germany. Oh did they forget to put that in your Hasbara troll book?
            Sargon had the right idea and I am sure that the next (as)syrian king will again deport them as I said, to a small desert strip, and deny them water, food, not enough to starve you understand, just enough to keep them hungry.
            The Nazis big problem was that they said ‘Labour (work) makes you free’ Of course the idea that the Jewish people would actually work was a joke. As always, that sat around, cried, blamed someone else for their problems and worked out a scheme to make others pay them for over a century for the imagined hurts .
            Your little attempts at insult merely display your ignorance.

          • neluroman

            What present or future are you speaking of if you refer to Persians? We cannot speak of Persians after the year 650 CE. Iranians are to Persians what Italians are to Romans or Jews to Hebrews. Therefore, we cannot speak of Persians in terms of present, let alone say in terms of future.

            “24 March, 1933 Judea declared war on Germany, ” you claim. Wow!!! How on earth can it be? Judea has disappeared from world stage starting with the year 135.CE. So, what are you talking about? How could Judea, in 1933 ,declare war on Germany if it had ceased to exist 800 years earlier? Really how? What university did you say you graduated from?

            “I am sure that the next (as)syrian king will again deport them as I said, to a small desert strip, and deny them water, food, not enough to starve you understand, just enough to keep them hungry. ” you pretend. I have bad news for you. It couldn’t do that a coalition formed of Syria, Jordan and Egypt, to deport the Jews an inch from their land, let alone speak of a single country, Syria, whose present is in tatters and whose future is in doubts. Do you usually day dream, or only occasionally?

            “Of course the idea that the Jewish people would actually work was a joke.,” you state. Again you are cut off from reality. When, in the early years of the fifth decade of the last century, the Jews arrived in Palestine in big number, the Arabs sold them a lot of desertic land. The Arabs said to ones others, “These fools (Jews) paid us a lot for a land that has no water. What big fools they are!!”. But the Jews worked, worked and worked and their work eventually paid off. They found water, thus turning the desertic land into fabulous farms. When the Arabs saw the “wonder”, they started crying out, “We want our land back!”; “We want the land back!”. But it was too late, the Jews turned down their demands. More than that, 15 million Jews have so far acquired 160+ Nobel Prizes, whereas 1.6 billion Arab/Muslims have got only 7. Do you think that a Nobel Prize falls from sky like rain, and it is no need of hard work for it? My friend, think about this before launching yourself once again into stupid accusations.

          • PJ London

            I am not going to enter further into BS with an idiot Hasbara.
            Look up the 24 march 1933 headline “Judea declares war on Germany” only you are apparently unaware of history.
            With regard to the ‘work’ comment it was placed above the entry to Auschwitz, the German work camp where prisoners including communist jews were required to work in the German factories and on the farms.
            With regard to the quotes on ‘Persia’ it was a sarcastic reference to Iran, but that was beyond your simple comprehension.
            With regard to “Syria’ it was in reference to your ridiculous BS about Sargon.
            With regard to the future of Syria – Israel and the region, it is early days, and the stealing of the land of the Palestinians and the Syrians will be reversed and the thieves brought to justice.
            You can carry on with your revised cr*p, the history according to zionists, but the world has seen through your lies.
            BDS will close Israel and then the war crimes committed by the murderous IDF and its political masters will be brought before the courts and they will be punished.
            Remember that the simple soldiers of 70 years ago are still being put on your ridiculous trials. Israelis will be identified, tracked, charged and incarcerated for another 70 years.
            You can rewrite history a la 1984 but the future will be written by honest men and women (probably speaking Arabic).

          • neluroman

            First off, I’m not an idiot and I’m not from Hasbara. Secondly, considering what you say, you must be a “jihadist” or a wannabe jihadist. And, of course, even if history, logic or the whole universe contradict you, you have your way: no argumentation, only Allahu Akbaru and “bum,bum,bum”. There is no any surprise here, you are all the same.

          • PJ London

            Being anti-Zionist does not in any way make me a Jihadist or even a Muslim. I hold Christian-Western ethics and morals to be superior.
            Nothing in the history, logic or anything in the universe contradicts what I say, only your twisted support for murderous, thieving, lying thugs is a contradiction of basic humanity.
            Unfortunately we are not all the same, most of you (pl) are mindless MSM consuming sheep.
            You have that war criminal PM saying on one day, “there is no such thing as Palestine or Palestinians’ and the next saying “We can’t negotiate with Palestinians as there is no one representing the Palestinians to negotiate with.” Typical Zionist double-speak.
            PS you truly are an idiot, your mother merely failed to tell you.

          • neluroman

            What do you mean by “being an anti-Zionist”? Firstly, do you know what “Zionist” means? Let me explain. Zionism means accepting Jews’ right to have a country of their own on the land of their forefathers. On base of what do you oppose this concept? Let me teach you little history. The Jews (ancient Hebrews) have been the only population that has ever created there statal formations that could be called: a country. Since 135 CE, when Judea disappeared as a state, no any other people has ever built a country in Palestine. The people of Palestine was not heard of. Different people colonized this region, from Romans, Arabs, Crusaders, Ottomans to Egyptian Mamelukes. And still few people have permanently lived there. And it was not until the Zionists had arrived in big number, did the Arab population begin to augment itself. The introduction of European standards of wage and life acted like a magnet on the entire Middle East. Suddenly, Palestine became an Arab center of attraction. By 1922, after a quarter century of Jewish colonization, their number overpassed 500,000. More than that, between 1932 and 1944 over 500, 000 Arabs came into Palestine to take advantage of living conditions existing there, like in no other Arab state.Palestine was at that time the only region in Middle East where an Arab middle class was in existence. During this period a few attempts were made to divide Palestine between Arabs and Jews – all turned down by Arabs. The last one, the 1947 UN ‘s Partition Plan, was rejected by Arab leaders with these words: “The Arab world is not in a compromising mood. It’s likely that this plan is rational and logical, but the fate of nations is not decided by rational logic. Nations never concede; they fight.” Practically they wanted to bet everything on a supposed victory in a no so hard to anticipate Israeli-Arab war. In the end they were 200 millions against 5 millions. And they had the war (four in total), they so much pledged for. But, surprise, surprise, they lost, and once with the wars they lost a lot of land, including here Jerusalem too. Now they wanted a return to the UN’s initial Partition Plan. But the Jew turned down the proposal saying: ” No, no, you had this chance but you preferred to resort to war. Now you must bear the consequences of your stupidity.” Of course, the Arabs (now called Palestinians) refused to accept such a situation. The Israel politics visa vis of Palestinians is one of wait-and-see with a “carrot and stick” approach. On the other side at least half of Palestinians (Hamas) regularly assert that they will never accept Israel in any border. The other half of Palestinians (Palestinian Authority) has its two hard to get over demands: Temple Month control and the so-called “right of return,” . And even so, when P.A . and Israel negotiations move an “inch” forward, Hamas launches a terrorist attack on Israel and everything freezes instantly. That is on short the situation in Palestine. If you want to believe me, fine; if you don’t want to believe me, fine it too. I have no any problem with that.
            P.S . Just by repeating over and over again that someone else is an idiot doesn’t make you less idiot Think about!

          • PJ London

            You really should stop drinking the Israeli koolaid. Not one of the things you quote is factually correct.
            Unlike you, I actually know what the Zionists are. I take them at their word.
            “We will establish ourselves in Palestine whether you like it or not…You can hasten our arrival or you can equally retard it. It is however better for you to help us so as to avoid our constructive powers being turned into a destructive power which will overthrow the world.” (Chaim Weizmann, Published in “Judische Rundschau,” No. 4, 1920)

            David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): “If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti – Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.

            “We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves.” Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.
            “We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.” Israel Koenig, “The Koenig Memorandum”

            “It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism,colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands.” Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.

            The fact is that you are a flat out liar.
            1890 Jews 43,000 Muslims 432,000
            1914 Jews 94,000 Muslims 525,000
            1922 Jews 84,000 Muslims 589,000
            1931 Jews 175,000 Muslims 760,000
            by 1947 Jews 630,000 Muslims 1,181,000

            The main reason that Muslims increased after 1922 was the fact that the British were running the region and thus the corruption of the Ottomans was removed.
            Your depiction of Israel strategy as ‘carrot and stick’ is so ridiculous as to be obscene.

            Vladimir Jabotinsky, The Iron Wall, 1923: “Zionist colonization must either be terminated or carried out against the wishes of the native population. This colonization can, therefore, be continued and make progress only under the protection of a power independent of the native population – an iron wall, which will be in a position to resist the pressure to the native population. This is our policy towards the Arabs…”
            Vladimir Jabotinsky, founder of Revisionist Zionism (precursor of Likud), The Iron Wall, 1923:
            “A voluntary reconciliation with the Arabs is out of the question either now or in the future. If you wish to colonize a land in which people are already living, you must provide a garrison for the land, or find some rich man or benefactor who will provide a garrison on your behalf. Or else-or else, give up your colonization, for without an armed force which will render physically impossible any attempt to destroy or prevent this colonization, colonization is impossible, not difficult, not dangerous, but IMPOSSIBLE!… Zionism is a colonization adventure and therefore it stands or falls by the question of armed force. It is important… to speak Hebrew, but, unfortunately, it is even more important to be able to shoot – or else I am through with playing at colonizing.”

            David Ben Gurion, future Prime Minister of Israel, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985: “We must expel Arabs and take their places.”

            Joseph Weitz, head of the Jewish Agency’s Colonization Department in 1940. From “A Solution to the Refugee Problem”: “Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both peoples together in this country. We shall not achieve our goal if the Arabs are in this small country. There is no other way than to transfer the Arabs from here to neighboring countries – all of them. Not one village, not one tribe should be left.”

            The 1947 ‘Partition’ was rejected because who the heck is Britain and America to give away the Palestinians land?

            “The issue of Palestinian refugees resonated with me because I myself was a refugee. … We came to the U.S. in August 1944 as part of a token group of about 1,000 mostly Jewish refugees … In 1987, when I read Simha Flapan’s The Birth of Israel: Myths and Realities, I was so shocked and disbelieving that it took me a second reading of his book to come to terms with what he wrote at the outset: that the 1948 war was as needless and unnecessary for the “security” of Israel as was the Israeli invasion of Lebanon of 1982. I learned that … the 1948 war was not defensive, but a war to gain more territory than the U.N. had allotted for the Jewish state and to “cleanse” the area of Palestinian Arabs. I learned that even before the May 15 invasion by Arab armies, Jewish forces had succeeded in expelling some 300,000 Palestinians from their homes, but another 400,000 Palestinians remained in areas that the Jews coveted. Since the Jewish population of Palestine in 1948 was only about 600,000, the Ben-Gurion leadership required war in order to rid the new Jewish state of most of its Arab population.”
            (Ronald Bleier, November 1992)

            Why would I accept that a religion, not a race of people, who have lived in various countries for 2,000 years, been citizens of those countries, must suddenly have a ‘right’ to steal someone else land? Do Seventh Day Adventists have a right to take over Canada? Do Scientologists have the right to take over Panama, after all Hubbard got some of his ideas whilst travelling through Panama?
            Your blatant lies or ignorance about Palestine is disgusting,

            Hebrew essayist Achad Ha-Am, after paying a visit to Palestine in 1891: “Abroad we are accustomed to believe that Israel is almost empty; nothing is grown here and that whoever wishes to buy land could come here and buy what his heart desires. In reality, the situation is not like this. Throughout the country it is difficult to find cultivable land which is not already cultivated.”
            Nothing in what you wrote is relevant and mostly untrue.

            Hating the activities of the Zionists makes me Human not Muslim. Only non-humans could accept much less admire Zionism and the adherents.

          • PJ London

            You are a flat out liar. Every fact you quote is either irrelevant or plain wrong.

            Hebrew essayist Achad Ha-Am, after paying a visit to Palestine in 1891: “Abroad we are accustomed to believe that Israel is almost empty; nothing is grown here and that whoever wishes to buy land could come here and buy what his heart desires. In reality, the situation is not like this. Throughout the country it is difficult to find cultivable land which is not already cultivated.”
            Lord Sydenham, Hansard, House of Lords, 21 June 1922: “If we are going to admit claims on conquest thousands of years ago, the whole world will have to be turned upside down.”
            Vladimir Jabotinsky, founder of Revisionist Zionism (precursor of Likud), The Iron Wall, 1923: “A voluntary reconciliation with the Arabs is out of the question either now or in the future. If you wish to colonize a land in which people are already living, you must provide a garrison for the land, or find some rich man or benefactor who will provide a garrison on your behalf. Or else-or else, give up your colonization, for without an armed force which will render physically impossible any attempt to destroy or prevent this colonization, colonization is impossible, not difficult, not dangerous, but IMPOSSIBLE!… Zionism is a colonization adventure and therefore it stands or falls by the question of armed force. It is important… to speak Hebrew, but, unfortunately, it is even more important to be able to shoot – or else I am through with playing at colonizing.”
            David Ben Gurion, future Prime Minister of Israel, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985: “We must expel Arabs and take their places.”
            David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): “If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti – Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
            “Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves .. politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.”
            (David Ben-Gurion, 1938)

            “We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves.” Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.
            “We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.” Israel Koenig, “The Koenig Memorandum”
            “It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism,colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands.” Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.
            “It was decided and carried out: they washed her, cut her hair, raped her and killed her.”
            (David Ben-Gurion, 1949)

            Your ‘carrot and stick’ BS
            ” We must define our position and lay down basic principles for a settlement.Our demands should be moderate and balanced, and appear to be reasonable. But in fact they must involve such conditions as to ensure that the enemy rejects them. Then we should manoeuvre and allow him to define his own position, and reject a settlement on the basis of a compromise position. We should then publish his demands as embodying unreasonable extremism.”
            (Yehoshafat Harkabi, 2 November 1973)

            “Without lies, it would be impossible to talk about peace with the Palestinians for 36 years while at the same time seizing more and more Palestinian land. Without lies, it would be impossible to claim that there is no partner for the road map, while at the same time injecting more and more money into outposts that the road map calls for dismantling. Without lies, it would be impossible to promise “painful concessions” in exchange for peace, while at the same time terming people who concluded such an agreement “traitors.””
            (Akiva Eldar, 24 November 2003)

            Your ‘history’ BS
            “Following 70 years of intensive excavations in the Land of Israel, archaeologists have found out: The patriarchs’ acts are legendary, the Israelites did not sojourn in Egypt or make an exodus, they did not conquer the land. Neither is there any mention of the empire of David and Solomon, nor of the source of belief in the God of Israel. These facts have been known for years, but Israel is a stubborn people and nobody wants to hear about it.”
            (Ze’ev Herzog, 29 October 1999)

            “All these events [in the biblical books of Exodus and Joshua] are practically contradicted by archaeology.”
            (Ze’ev Herzog, 23 December 1999)

            Your ‘population’ BS.
            The issue of Palestinian refugees resonated with me because I myself was a refugee. … We came to the U.S. in August 1944 as part of a token group of about 1,000 mostly Jewish refugees … In 1987, when I read Simha Flapan’s The Birth of Israel: Myths and Realities, I was so shocked and disbelieving that it took me a second reading of his book to come to terms with what he wrote at the outset: that the 1948 war was as needless and unnecessary for the “security” of Israel as was the Israeli invasion of Lebanon of 1982. I learned that … the 1948 war was not defensive, but a war to gain more territory than the U.N. had allotted for the Jewish state and to “cleanse” the area of Palestinian Arabs. I learned that even before the May 15 invasion by Arab armies, Jewish forces had succeeded in expelling some 300,000 Palestinians from their homes, but another 400,000 Palestinians remained in areas that the Jews coveted. Since the Jewish population of Palestine in 1948 was only about 600,000, the Ben-Gurion leadership required war in order to rid the new Jewish state of most of its Arab population.”
            (Ronald Bleier, November 1992)
            Jews Chr Musl Tot
            1800 7 22 246 275
            1890 43 57 432 532
            1914 94 70 525 689
            1922 84 71 589 752
            1931 175 89 760 1,033
            1947 630 143 1,181 1,970

            As you can see total nonsense by you from start to finish
            You are a liar, a bald faced liar. You are either an idiot who believes the lies produced by the Zionists or are a tool, of their oppression.
            This willingness to lie is the basis of the whole fabric of Israel
            “in a debate setting, it takes 30 seconds to create a lie, to spin a lie, and then five minutes to disprove it. So in a debate setting, lies win. I feel like that’s something you see in the media.”
            (Wendy Pearlman, 11 February 2004)

            “I think that everyone who lives with the contradictions of Zionism condemns himself to protracted madness. It’s impossible to live like this. It’s impossible to live with such a tremendous wrong. It’s impossible to live with such conflicting moral criteria. When I see not only the settlements and the occupation and the suppression, but now also the insane wall that the Israelis are trying to hide behind, I have to conclude that there is something very deep here in our attitude to the indigenous people of this land that drives us out of our minds.”
            (Haim Hanegbi, 8 August 2003)

            “The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born and developed after the war.” Israeli General Matityahu Peled, Ha’aretz, 19 March 1972.

            I hate the actions of the Zionists. That is because I am human and only a non-human could condone or accept the inhumanity of their actions.
            I am not Muslim, but I do not support the jewish ethos.

            “There is a huge gap between us (Jews) and our enemies �not just in ability but in morality, culture, sanctity of life, and conscience. They are our neighbors here, but it seems as if at a distance of a few hundred meters away, there are people who do not belong to our continent, to our world, but actually belong to a different galaxy.” Israeli president Moshe Katsav. The Jerusalem Post, May 10, 2001He tells the truth, the Palestinianss are moral and ethical, totally unlike the Israelis.
            “For months now the struggle against Germany is waged by each Jewish community, at each conference, in all our syndicates, and by each Jew all over the world. There is reason to believe that our part in this struggle has general value. We will trigger a spiritual and material war of all the world against Germany’s ambitions to become once again a great nation, to recover lost territories and colonies. But our Jewish interests demand the complete destruction of Germany. Collectively and individually, the German nation is a threat to us Jews.” — Vladimir Jabotinsky (founder of the Jewish terrorist group, Irgun Zvai Leumi) in Mascha Rjetsch, January, 1934

            1934!!!!!!
            And yet the lies continue.
            (Libbre David 37) “To communicate anything to a goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if they knew what we teach about them they would kill us openly.”
            Talmud

            So little Hasbara think what you are supporting and then do the honourable thing. A rope is more certain than pills.

          • neluroman

            ‘You are a flat out liar. Every fact you quote is either irrelevant or plain wrong.,” you claim. Again you make baseless assertions. You say I lie but you fail to prove it, as well as you fail to prove anything from what I said to be wrong. All what you do is to quote, from different personalities, only those words that fit into your already preestablished truth. Think about! Mr. Johnson and Mr .Farange -the champions of Brexit- admit now that they “exaggerated ” a little during the Brexit debate. So, how relevant their says will be over 100 years? Can someone in the future base their study of British history on what these two politicians said at a moment or other in their political career? No of course, they can’t. To base your evaluation of a specific past or present reality, based exclusively on what one other says, is childish. But exactly that is what you are doing here. You forget to take into consideration that people (politicians) say one thing today and something else tomorrow; that some “experts” say something and other “experts” say something completely different. But in our case you appear to believe only those whose says match your already preestablished frame. What is really mind puzzling is that you tend to blindly believe in those whose sayings contradict even your assumed belief – Christianity- and the elementary logic. You say you are a Christian, but still that didn’t prevent you from believing that, ” The patriarchs’ acts are legendary, the Israelites did not sojourn in Egypt or make an exodus, they did not conquer the land. Neither is there any mention of the empire of David and Solomon, nor of the source of belief in the God of Israel”. Wow!!! If so, neither the story of Jesus can stand up. In this conditions what remains from Christianity? Therefore either you are liar- you are not a Christian- or you are an ignorant – you don’t know what you are talking about. My friend, you cannot be in a striptease club and in Paradise at the same time, as you cannot be a Christian if you don’t believe in Bible. You must make up your mind in this regard, either one or the other.

            It seems to me you don’t have an analytic mind, that is why you base everything on what Mr. X or Mr.Y says, when refer to a specific situation or a specific event. You have (it seems) no enough neurons to work out your own analysis. You need others to tell you what is correct and what is not. You cannot process the information to reach a conclusion by yourself. That you are a monument of ignorance appears clearly in what you (proudly) quoted here : ” (Libbre David 37) “To communicate anything to a goy about our religious relations would be ……… ‘blah,blah,blah’ ” . Aside of the fact that this book- whose very existence is really debatable- is rather a pamphlet than a serious inside view of Talmud teachings, it is completely irrelevant to what we discuss here. We discuss here, if you don’t know yet, Israeli- Palestinian issues. Is Talmud part of Israel constitution ? No. I assure you it is not. Therefore, what the hell are you talking about? How is Talmud relevant to our discuss? Is Christianity relevant to the USA or Russia politics in Syria? My friend, let me tell you once again the main motives for what a Jewish state in Middle East is as normal as day light. More than 4000 years ago, a people, Hebrews, built a country in the area known now as Palestine. If you don’t believe me, I suggest you go to Jerusalem and see by yourself, at every corner, a vivid archaeological evidence that sheds light on the biblical description of the Israel and its people. At a moment in history they were forced out of this territory by stronger enemies. Many of them left, but not all. Some remained and have continually lived on this territory until today. Since then many consecutive people have conquered the land, the last one of them was the Ottoman Empire. It ruled the region for 400 years. In the wake of Ottoman Empire collapse many people living there asserted their goal to have a country of their own on this territory. Among them were the Jews too. Why would only Arabs have this right to a country of their own in this region and the Jews don’t? Really why? Because once what the Ottoman Empire disappeared from region and the Arabs were busy with fighting each other for land, the Europeans were those who,eventually, drawn the map of the region. And they said: This is Jordan, that is Saudi Arabia, that is Palestine that is Israel and so on. Israelis accepted this partition- they had no means to oppose it- but Arabs didn’t accept. They said to each other. “We are 400 millions, they are 5 millions. We can make “tabula- rasa” of them even if we fight empty -hands against them”. But it was not exactly like this. Contrary to any expectations the Jews won all the wars. To say that the Jews were the aggressors here is to defy the elementary logic, given the huge dis-proportionality between the number of Jews and the number of Arabs. My friend, Israel is only 2% out of all Arabian Peninsula. Is that too much , considering that Jewish people has a history of 4000 years in Palestine? You continually pretend that Jews have stole a country, but you every time fail to name that country. Isn’t that a flawed logic that you cannot name what country Jews stole? The truth, my friend, is that in reality there is no a land problem between Arabs and Israelis. The problem is that Prophet Muhammad, with his last words, clearly stated: “Make Arabia for Muslims only!”. That is the real problem, the rest is “blah, blah, blah”. In conclusion, my friend: You are a monument of ignorance, one who bases everything what he knows on hearsays. You don’t know at least what means to be a Christian. You don’t know the core tenets of Christianity, let alone speak to know the core issues between Jews and Palestinians. But don’t be sad, my friend. You are not the only one in this posture, all anti- Semites are like you – people with only two neurons, one of which is left on a permanent holyday. Any debate with you is a true entertainment, and arises the same question over and over again: , where and when did you lose your neurons?

          • neluroman

            Surprise, Surprise! My last reply to you was cut off. What predictible! Anyhow, in a nutshell, what I wanted to say can be resumed in these fewer sentences. You don’t know anyting of substance about Middle East, Israel, Islam,Takyyia (divine lie) Christianity. Bible, Qur’an or Talmud. You are ” off” in regard of all these topics. Your mind is not analytical, that is why you heavily base all what you know on someone else sayings. If you are a Christian, I personally doubt it, then you are part of a culture of denial, specific to those useful mature Christians with childish mind. Keep in mind this: What is at stake in the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians is not the land, but something else much, much more serious. If were about land this conflict would be history now.

          • PJ London

            I quote the actual sources, and you just repeat lies.
            You lost, it is all and only about land.
            A land where the people can be safe from the laws of other countries, where they can run and hide from charges of paedophilia, larceny, fraud and murder, and never be extradited.
            It may be that you have lived more years in the Middle East than I have, but I doubt that very much. (I do not count Israel as the Middle East, it is a world of its’ own divorced from reality, humanity and mankind.)
            If you wish to be adult on this site, please give data and sources not your little idiotic opinions.

          • neluroman

            What sources are you talking about? Is not Bible a source? If yes, how is that you believe in those “nobodies” (by comparison to Bible) who deny the Biblical stories. And you still have the audacity of calling yourself a Christian. I doubt it you are a Christian, but if, by absurd, you are one, then you are no more no less than a “poster boy” for the Christians who have lost both their faith and the capacity of logically analizing things and facts. I tell you once again: Israel is just 2% of Arabian Peninsula., 40% of wich is infertile land (Negev Desert).Do you think that people from two generations would kill and be killed for this land if were not for something else over there? What about facts, let me come with a few. Since 9/11 more than 2900 terrorist acts have been committed all across the world. But in no one a Jew was involved.When did you last time hear, “Elohim is Great!” and bum,bum,bum? When? Almost 3000 women were murdered in so called “honor killing ” last year. And still no one was Jewish. Women Genital Mutilation is common in Middle East and North Africa, but not in Israel. Israelis have got169 Nobel Prizes, but still they are not the “inventors of ” walking- human- bomb” Someone else holds this “honor”. My friend, think about!

          • PJ London

            “You believe in a book that has talking animals, wizards, witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, burning bushes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water, and all sorts of magical, absurd and primitive stories, and you say that we are the ones that need help?”
            ― Mark Twain
            “..a God who could make good children as easily a bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave is angels painless lives, yet cursed his other children with biting miseries and maladies of mind and body; who mouths justice, and invented hell–mouths mercy, and invented hell–mouths Golden Rules and forgiveness multiplied by seventy times seven, and invented hell; who mouths morals to other people, and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man’s acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites his poor abused slave to worship him!
”- No. 44, The Mysterious Stranger, Mark Twain

            The fact that I am not a Muslim does not (thank God) make me a Christian.
            (PS I am not your friend. I am much more fastidious in whom I call a friend.)

          • ray rayz

            watch “the greatest story never told”.. its very informative..

          • Mike Abramov

            So Mr. PJ of London, you believe everything you read. It amazes me that a revisionist like Brenner has become the icon of the pro-Palestine lobby only because what he has written suits your mantra whether it is true or not.

            At some pint in your life you need to ask the question why were the Arabs in Palestine happy to governed by the Ottomans and then the British but when it came about that Jews will govern only 15% of the designated land, you had to go to war in 1948. I will give you the answer. the Arabs did not want Jews in charge. Simple.

          • PJ London

            What on earth are you talking about?
            I don’t believe anything without researching and going back to sources.
            At this ‘pint’ in my life, I say The Arabs were happy to be ‘ruled’ by Istanbul because the Turks did not come and steal their lands and destroy their houses and crops. Oh that is right, London did not destroy houses and steal crops tear down olive groves and slaughter the animals either.

            Vladimir Jabotinsky (the founder and advocate of the Zionist terrorist organizations), Quoted by Maxime Rodinson in Peuple Juif ou Problem Juif. (Jewish People or Jewish Problem): “Has any People ever been seen to give up their territory of their own free will? In the same way, the Arabs of Palestine will not renounce their sovereignty without violence.”

            Would you want to be ‘ruled’ by people who say this?

            “The Palestinians” would be crushed like grasshoppers … heads smashed against the boulders and walls.” ” Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988
            5. “When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle.” Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983.

            You are clearly ignorant of Arab culture, ‘National’ identity is meaningless, only tribe, family and religion has any importance. The Jews had from the beginning the stated objective of creating ‘Greater Israel’ from the Nile to the Euphrates. Before they even arrived, they said that they would steal all the land including perts of Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan and Iraq.

            Edit
            Ben Gurion: In 1899, Davis Triestsch wrote to Herzl: ” I would suggest to you to come round in time to the “Greater Palestine” program before it is too late… the Basle program must contain the words “Great Palestine” or “Palestine and its neighboring lands” otherwise it’s nonsense. You do not get ten million Jews into a land of 25,000 Km2″. ” The present map of Palestine was drawn by the British mandate. The Jewish people have another map which our youth and adults should strive to fulfill — From the Nile to the Euphrates.”

            Your last sentence describes you to perfection, you are very simple.

          • Mike Abramov

            My apologies fore the mis-spelling of ‘point’.
            ‘The Arabs were happy to be ‘ruled’ by Istanbul because the Turks did not come and steal their lands and destroy their houses and crops’

            Nobody ‘stole’ any land. This is pure propaganda. The Ottomans turned the land of ‘milk and honey’ in to swamps and desert. They took the trees of the north to support the massive costs of running an empire…in case you didn’t know. The Ottomans did not steal any land….they commandeered the land instead.

            As for the next allegation, are you really suggesting that I am to believe that the Arabs were completely guilt free. The mantra of Hamas is to destroy every Jew in the land (Hamas Charter Cha. 7 Par. 7) My family lived in Palestine in the 1930’s and from what they saw, it was not unusual for an angry Arab to slice open the womb of a pregnant Jewish woman.

            Jabotinsky, is considered an extremist even by Jewish historians. By contrast, you now have Kemal Mashaal and his war mongering to cope with.

            As for your quotes from the New York Times, there is a plethora of anti-Israel quotes on the internet, especially on Facebook.

            May I remind you that the Palestinian flag was designed by a British army officer in the 1920s. However, the Arab inhabitants of Palestine only referred to themselves as Palestinians after the Yom Kippur War. Arafat (an Egyptian) suggested that a national identity will encourage world sympathy…which it did.

            The art of discussion of this nature is to carefully prune quotes to enforce your point. This you have done well, but not convincingly. In a nutshell your omission is that the Arabs do not want Jews in ‘their’ country (Prof. Ilan Pappe).

          • PJ London

            I am so sorry. Here you are : “The Arabs do not want jews in their country”.
            Why would they?
            I am not ‘pruning’ anything, merely presenting factual data.
            If you do not like the NYT here is soneone else
            “The fight against Germany has now been waged for months by every Jewish community, on every conference, in all labor unions and by every single Jew in the world. There are reasons for the assumption that our share in this fight is of general importance. We shall start a spiritual and material war of the whole world against Germany. Germany is striving to become once again a great nation, and to recover her lost territories as well as her colonies. But our Jewish interests call for the complete destruction of Germany.” (Valadimir Jabotinsky, in Mascha Rjetsch, January, 1934)

            I have never suggested that the Arabs were guilt free, but the old Jewish whine about “others do it too’ is really childish.

          • Mike Abramov

            Sir – I am at least grateful to you for a dialogue of opposing views that has refrained from ‘name calling’.

            I have no issue with the NYT.

            If we in England openly stated that we do not want Poles or Pakistanis here we would breach the Race Relations Act. However, is it OK for the Arabs to state that Palestine should be ‘Juden frei’? Many Jews support the Palestinians including Norman Finklestein and Jeff Halper. My concern is that their support is for the wrong reasons.

            As for Jabotinsky, even I do not ascribe to his extremist views. I am a moderate man and a humanitarian. Abdul Nasser in 1967 wanted to wipe Israel off the map and Arabise the entire Middle East with him in charge. He would have had no time for the nationalist Palestinians yet he is revered in Arab history.

            Israel has enough internal turncoats to maintain the right to ask ‘ why are we always to blame’. This is not whining, it is a fact.

            Frankly, it never ceases to amaze me that Israel puts up with hordes of left-wingers arriving in Israel as ‘tourists’ and heading straight up Highway 90 to express their solidarity with the Palestinians….and then go home again. This would never happen in any other Middle Eastern country.

            Finally, the history of Palestine (aka: Judea and Samaria) is complicated. Palestine has existed as a name since AD 135. It was only after the demise of the Roman Empire in AD 490 that Jews migrated to other lands for a ‘better future’. The Arabs at the time were still pagan………..

          • PJ London

            Enough with the re-writing history already.
            “As early as the middle of the 2nd century BCE the Jewish author of the third book of the Oracula Sibyllina addressed the “chosen people,” saying: “Every land is full of thee and every sea.” The most diverse witnesses, such as Strabo, Philo, Seneca, Luke (the author of the Acts of the Apostles), Cicero, and Josephus, all mention Jewish populations in the cities of the Mediterranean basin. ”
            “Many Jews entered the Diaspora as slaves after the destruction of the Temple in 70 CE and 135 CE.”
            “While the majority of Jews lived outside Judea rather than in it, and long before the destruction of the Temple, the majority of Jewish people were already living in the Diaspora with perhaps as many as a million in Alexandria for example”
            I can provide a list of 195 countries and towns and districts where the Jews have been evicted. Not because they are ‘Jews” but because of what they do, the way they behave and the practises that they perform.
            This is not again because they are Jews, any group or organisation that discriminates against ‘outsiders’ (think Masons, Mormons, Rotary, Broederbond, KKK et al) will be despised and ejected by the majority.
            It is not who you are it is what you do.
            Enough also with the ‘others are the same or even worse’ that does not excuse or justify Israeli behaviour.
            The thing is that this same behaviour has been going on for thousands of years, Hmmm, maybe it is what you are. Can a leopard change its’ spots?
            Your final comment “The Arabs at the time were still pagan…….” is beyond despicable.

          • Mike Abramov

            The Arabs at the time were still pagan…….” is beyond despicable.

            There is NOTHING despicable about paganism. Paganism is merely being in touch with one’s spiritual side i.e. the four elements. My point was that the Arabs at the time were not monotheistic and therefore uninterested in mass conversions by the sword.

            I have no issue with the first paragraph and the ‘dispersal of the Jews.The end of the Roman Empire changed Europe and Asia forever which is why I added the year 490 ACE.

            The second paragraph is merely confirming the ‘tribalism’ that has existed since the dawn of mankind.

            ‘that does not excuse or justify Israeli behaviour.’ This statement I have a problem with. So, as a fellow Englishman who has knowledge of the troubles in N.Ireland in the 1970’s how are the Israelis different in their behaviour in dealing with potential suicide bombers, random knife attacks and a hatred of a Jewish state because the IRA felt and acted exactly towards a British presence.

            Is it that you as a Jew (I guess) are ashamed of your Jewishness because of the way the Jewish state is dealing with this? From the word go (15/05/1948), the entire Arab world tried to eliminate the Jewish state. Why? Because they did not want a Jewish state in the Middle East…in fact the world does not want a Jewish country anywhere. FYI, anti-Zionism has been in every day parlance since 1920.

            So, lets us open the gates of Gaza (forget Rafah as that is Egypt) and allow the free-flow of Gazans to work in Israel uninhibited. Take down the wall in Jerusalem separating the Palestinian territories from the Jewish territories and see what will happens….bombs in cafes….random stabbings… kidnaps….

            I hate having to fight Israel’s corner but I cannot tolerate the barrage of hatred towards the only Jewish homeland purely because the Arabs are nostalgic, sentimental and tribal.

            Had they accepted the Jewish homeland in 1948 you and i would not be having this conversation.

          • PJ London

            ” It was only after the demise of the Roman Empire in AD 490 that Jews migrated to other lands for a ‘better future’. The Arabs at the time were still pagan………..”
            Are you insane?
            “therefore uninterested in mass conversions by the sword.”
            Conversions to what?
            The options were Christianity, Buddhism and … that all.
            (If you were honest you would admit that you meant it as a slur.)
            You pretended that the Jews were forced to leave Palestine in 490 AD, total BS and dishonest.
            “‘that does not excuse or justify Israeli behaviour.’ This statement I have a problem with. ”
            So you believe that one persons evil justifies another being evil. Another despicable sentiment.
            “Because they did not want a Jewish state in the Middle East..” you clearly are insane, why would you or anyone want to hand over your land to any other person, jewish, African or oriental or caucasian?
            The jewish state was to be in Uganda (lots of gold) until the Zionists realised that Uganda has no access to the sea and wanted something closer to home (Europe).
            “in fact the world does not want a Jewish country anywhere”. Duuh yes, as I pointed out the Jews have been evicted 190 times since around 100 bc.

            “anti-Zionism has been in every day parlance since 1920.” No it has been around since the mid 1800s in fact as long as Zionism has been around.
            “In the early history of Zionism many traditional religious Jews opposed ideas of nationalism (Jewish or otherwise) which they regarded as a secular ideology, which some viewed as a violation of the Three Oaths. ”

            For 2,000 years Jews, Muslims and Christians (and some Pagans) lived in harmony in Palestine, What changed after 1940? Oh yes that is right the zionists arrived.
            Don’t come your righteous BS, everyone knows what happened, every one knows what is happening, the only uncertainty is what is going to happen. Will the world allow this travesty of humanity to continue, or will they face the ‘Samson Option’ and clear the thieves back to their homes in Poland and Germany?

          • neluroman

            “For 2,000 years Jews, Muslims and Christians (and some Pagans) lived in harmony in Palestine, ” you claim. Wrong! Muslims appeared on the world stage only after the first decades of the seventh century. And never has been harmony in Palestine. Do you know, for example, the fate of the Medina Jewish tribes, Banu Quiraza, Banu al-Nadir and Banu Quainuka. I suggest you get informed first and only then speak out. My friend, if UN has decided that Palestine has to be devided between Arabs and Jews, who are you to contradict UN? You contradict Bible, you contradict the best historians, you contradict logic, a little more and you arrive to contradict humanity itself. What on earth did the Jews do to you? What? From where this hate of Jews?

          • PJ London

            Medina is in Palestine?
            I have studied both Islam and Judaism probably a lot more than you.
            The only time the Muslims attacked was in response to attacks on them. At the start, Mohamed was seen as a merchant who was attracting business from the established Jewish and Arab merchants of Mecca who were running a religious scam on unsophisticated travellers. That is why he and his followers left Mecca and travelled to Medina. At first they were welcomed by the Jewish tribes around Medina and only when the Muslims started insisting on moral and ethical treatment did SOME of the jewish tribes get upset.
            The prophet married a jewess, Safiyya who was born in Medina to Huyayy ibn Akhtab, the chief of the Jewish tribe Banu Nadir. Her mother, Barra bint Samawal, was from the Banu Qurayza tribe. She was the granddaughter of Samaw’al ibn Adiya from the Banu Harith tribe. After Muhammad’s death, she became involved in the power politics of the early Muslim community, and acquired substantial influence by the time of her death.
            You can BS as much as you like, read the history.
            PS the Jewish historians are probably not the least biased.
            Contradict the bible, it contradicts itself.
            Contradict logic, only if it is logical to not question anything and swallow whatever you are fed by people with an agenda.
            The people who contradict humanity are those who ask young children “where do you want me to shoot you?’
            I do not ‘hate’ jews as I said on a number of occasions I hate what they do.
            When you stop stealing (settlements) lying, (the most moral army) and killing, then I will stop calling you to account. Until then expect me to detest the actions of the Israelis and the Zionists (as did Einstein and millions of other jewish people) and the cheating bankers practising usury (but only on Gentiles.)

          • neluroman

            True, Medina is not in Palestine, but what happened in Medina is undoubtedly a good example of your “harmony” between Arabs and Jews anywhere in the world, including in Palestine. Yes, I’ve studied Islam and other religions for enough time to be now an expert in this domain. Prophet Muhammad was not ,” seen as a merchant,” he was a merchant since he had married Kadijah, the older, wealthy Meccan widow. Meccans were the followers of a politeist religion, and not a “scam on unsophisticated travelers,” as you try to define it. Muhammad, one day, pure and simple appeared in Mecca and pretended he is the Prophet of one of Meccans’ deities, Allah, and demanded them to smatch out all their idols except Allah. Meccans demanded him to perform some miracles to prove his prophethood, something what Muhammad was not able to do. In consequence Meccans rejected his claim. An enraged Muhammad started to use a very derogatory speech visa vis of Meccans’ religion. Meccans wanted him out of Mecca but the influent and respected Abu Talib, Muhammad’s uncle, was always there to protect his nephew. When Abu Talib died, Muhammad had no other alternative than to leave Mecca. Yes, the Jewish Medina tribes welcomed Muhammad, but when they rejected Muhammad’s claims to be a prophet this friendship turned into direct enmity. And within five years Muhammad had all Jews either expelled from Medina or murdered.
            ” The prophet married a jewess, Safiyya who was born in Medina,” not exactly my friend, not exactly, but about her story in my next post
            To be continued…..

          • neluroman

            Safiyah was the daughter of Huyai Ibn Akhtab, the leader of Bani Nadir, one of the Jewish tribes of Medina. When Muhammad had her tribe expelled from Medina, Safiyah, her husband, Kinana, and her family took refuge in Kaibar, a Jewish fortress 150 km north of Medina. For not very clear reasons her father, Huyai, remained in Medina and soon was to be beheaded along with other 800 men from another Medina Jewish tribe, Banu Quraiza. Safyiah was seventeen and very, very beautiful, like Helen from Troy. Some day Muhammad and his men attacked the fortress. The Jews were unprepared for war. They were taken by surprise and easily defeated. Their men were murdered or taken prisoners, and their women and children enslaved. Because Safyiah was so beautiful the man who captured her took her to the Prophet. Her beautifulness heavily impressed Muhammad, and he fell in love with her immediately and proposed her once what he had her husband murdered. Kinana, her husband, was very hard tortured before being murdered. He was the custode of his tribe’s treasure, and the Arabs wanted to know where the treasure was hidden. They pressed red iron into his eyes and put a fire on his chest until he died. A few hours later Muhammad married Safyiah and took her to his bed..
            This is the story of Safyiah, as it appears in the Book of Tabaqat, compiled by Ibn Sa’d, one of the most important ancient Islamic writers.
            P.J. London, the Jews have two words who define their world view: “NEVER AGAIN”. And for as such sad stories, like that of Safiyah Bint Huyai Ibn Akhtab, to never happen again, ISRAEL MUST EXIST, if you like it or not.
            My friend, I don’t pretend to be Herodotus, but I am god, very good to history, I assure you.

          • neluroman

            “For 2,000 years Jews, Muslims and Christians (and some Pagans) lived in harmony in Palestine, ” you claim. Wrong! Muslims appeared on the world stage only after the first decades of the seventh century. And never has been harmony in Palestine. Do you know, for example, the fate of the Medina Jewish tribes, Banu Quiraza, Banu al-Nadir and Banu Quainuka. I suggest you get informed first and only then speak out. My friend, if UN has decided that Palestine has to be devided between Arabs and Jews, who are you to contradict UN? You contradict Bible, you contradict the best historians, you contradict logic, a little more and you arrive to contradict humanity itself. What on earth did the Jews do to you? What? From where this hate of Jews?

          • Helen4Yemen

            {If we in England openly stated that we do not want Poles or Pakistanis here we would breach the Race Relations Act.}
            ____
            You are mixing apples and oranges. The Poles and Pakistanis in England are legal citizens who arrived just like the millions of Jews in America, not to erect a separate state but to live with the citizens of the land as equals The Jews in Palestine are colonial settlers just like the French in Algeria. Remember that no nation that I know is asking for the removal of legal residents but colonial settlers are never welcome. 1,000,000 French were pushed out from Algeria after 100 years.

          • Mike Abramov

            You said you didn’t want to talk to me.

          • Helen4Yemen

            You said you changed your mind after having agreed to my request not to comment to my comments. Too bad, you lost that chance!

          • Mike Abramov

            Stop being silly. This is not the school playground.

          • Helen4Yemen

            {However, is it OK for the Arabs to state that Palestine should be ‘Juden frei’?}
            ___
            Palestine was ‘Juden frei’? The Palestinian Jews like the rest of the Arab Jews lived as brothers for centuries and only the arrival of white Europeans disrupted that nice coexistence. You are vomiting your hasbara like there is no tomorrow.

          • Helen4Yemen

            {Many Jews support the Palestinians including Norman Finklestein and Jeff Halper.}
            __
            Yes, both firm Zionists, support Palestinians and only on 20% of Palestine. How generous!

          • Helen4Yemen

            {Abdul Nasser in 1967 wanted to wipe Israel off the map and Arabise the entire Middle East with him in charge. }
            ___
            Your nonsense never ends. The entire M/E is Arab. How is the Ashkenazi connected to any Arab lands more than the Eskimos or Zulus?

          • Helen4Yemen

            {As for Jabotinsky, even I do not ascribe to his extremist views.}

            Actually, he spoke the truth and openly stated Zionism’s agenda. He clearly states that Zionism is nothing more than colonialism. Was he wrong?
            ____
            Jabotinsky: “A voluntary reconciliation with the Arabs is out of the question either now or in the future. If you wish to colonize a land in which people are already living, you must provide a garrison for the land, or find some rich man or benefactor who will provide a garrison on your behalf. Or else-or else, give up your colonization, for without an armed force which will render physically impossible any attempt to destroy or prevent this colonization, colonization is impossible, not difficult, not dangerous, but IMPOSSIBLE!… Zionism is a colonization adventure and therefore it stands or falls by the question of armed force. It is important… to speak Hebrew, but, unfortunately, it is even more important to be able to shoot – or else I am through with playing at colonizing.” Vladimir Jabotinsky, founder of Revisionist Zionism (precursor of Likud), The Iron Wall, 1923

          • Helen4Yemen

            {It was only after the demise of the Roman Empire in AD 490 that Jews migrated to other lands for a ‘better future’.}
            ___
            But you do not mean to say the European Ashkenazi who converted only in the 8th century had migrated? How do a people in Europe migrate from Palestine?

          • Helen4Yemen

            {The Arabs at the time were still pagan………..}

            Yes, some were. In Yemen, the population was mainly Jews and Christians and then they became Muslims.

          • Helen4Yemen

            1- { Nobody ‘stole’ any land. }What do you call it when Europeans arrive and invade private land using the excuse of the ‘holocaust’?

            2- { Hamas is to destroy every Jew in the land }If that is true, then there would have been no Arab Jews left for you to import for cheap, very cheap, labor.

            3- { My family lived in Palestine in the 1930’s and from what they saw, it was not unusual for an angry Arab to slice open the womb of a pregnant Jewish woman. }Where did your family come from prior to 1930’s? Who give them permission to set foot on that land?

            4- { May I remind you that the Palestinian flag was designed by a British army officer in the 1920s. However, the Arab inhabitants of Palestine only referred to themselves as Palestinians after the Yom Kippur War. }Herzl drew a picture of the future ‘Jew-flag’. There was no ‘star of David’ on his version of flag, that came later. Who cares what they called themselves, there were no Europeans whities on that land, they were all indigenous, people of color.

            5- { Arafat (an Egyptian) suggested that a national identity will encourage world sympathy…which it did. }You mean unlike Polish David ben Gurion (David Grün)?

            6- { the Arabs do not want Jews in ‘their’ country (Prof. Ilan Pappe). }What do you think the Semitic Arabs Jews were who lived in Arab countries for centuries?

          • Helen4Yemen

            __ { why were the Arabs in Palestine happy to governed by the Ottomans and then the British}

            For the same reason the colonized Kenyans, Indians, Sudanese, Yemenis, Egyptians and dozens more had not choice but to submit to European colonialism. But the timing of Ashkenazi colonialism was at a time when the world was getting decolonized. Why do you ask such a stupid question?

            __ {the Arabs did not want Jews in charge. Simple.}

            The Arabs were tired of Europeans colonizing them and the Ashkenazi by any other name is a European colonizer of Palestine. SIMPLE!

          • chasdurham

            p j, have you ever heard of zionist math? TAKE APPROX. TWO TO FOUR HUNDRED THOUSAND AND MUTIPLY BY ABOUT FIFTEEN AND SHAZAM, YOU COME UP WITH SIX MILLION. world almanac 1940, page 129, world jewish population 15, 319,359. world almanac 1949,page 289, world jewish population15,713,289. natl. council of churches 1951, world jewish population, 15, 300 oo …dispute these numbers could end up with jail time in some european nations. how sad one is forced to believe the un-believeable. same with the ann frank diary written with a ball point pen..almost every one says her dad wrote that diary, what a surprise. it worked though, its required reading in american schools., not mark twain, longfellow or grapes of wrath by steinback .zio power in clueless AMERICA IS TOTAL…

          • PJ London

            ” Only 173000 Jews were ever in Auschwitz during all of its years of operation. (1935-45)
            58,240 died of typhus.
            2064 Jews died of natural causes other than Typhus.
            117 Jews were executed as punishment for actual crimes.
            161,164 Jews (including transfers in) were transferred out to other camps, still alive.
            11,836 Jews, still alive, were in the camp when it was liberated.”

            http://isurvived.org/AUSCHWITZ_TheCamp.html
            “Between 1.3-1.5 million people were murdered in the gas chambers of Auschwitz — more than 90% were Jews.” (down from the original 3 million claimed but what the heck.)

            ” SS medical personnel, including the infamous Dr. Josef Mengele, conducted selections among these lines, sending most victims to the gas chambers where they were usually killed and burned on the same day.”

            “The Red Cross had unrestricted access each month to every German concentration camp including Auschwitz. They had inside men who reported to them in detail the activities at the camps.
            In a Nov. 22, 1944 letter to U.S. State Department officials, the Red Cross said: “We had not been able to discover any trace of installations for exterminating civilian prisoners. This corroborates a report which we had already received from other sources …”

            “The Germans captured 150,000 British soldiers. 150 of those men were engineers who worked at Auschwitz-Birkenau to maintain the manufacturing plants that processed Silesian coal to make gasoline for the German Army. The Germans were using a coal gasification formula developed in 1915 in Russia. These 150 men obviously had daily access throughout the camps but to date neither a Nuremberg prosecutor nor a Holocaust researcher has cited their testimony. I wonder why.”

            I am such an “anti-semite” I keep on bringing facts to the discussion.

          • Helen4Yemen

            {“These fools (Jews) paid us a lot for a land that has no water. What big fools they are!!”.}

            Theodore Herzl: “We must expropriate gently the private property on the state assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it employment in our country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and circumspectly. Let the owners of the immoveable property believe that they are cheating us, selling us things for more than they are worth. But we are not going to sell them anything back”
            (Theodore Herzl, 12 June 1895)

          • neluroman

            I’ve said, ” I love you” many times, but, mea culpa, not always was true People (politicians), generally, say one today and other tomorrow. I am sure you know that Helen, don’t you?

          • Helen4Yemen

            (Ashkenazi, Sephardi, Mizrachi)

            Why did you leave out Afro-Jews?

          • Helen4Yemen

            { They found water, thus turning the desertic land into fabulous farms. When the Arabs saw the “wonder”, they started crying out, “We want our land back!”;}
            ___
            You are making a fool of yourself peddling stupid lies! How can the European Ashkenazi, with delicate baby soft hands that never touched soil make the desert bloom?

          • neluroman

            They are not lies. That is the truth, whether you like it or not.

          • Helen4Yemen

            You mean what was needed was baby soft white European hands to make the desert bloom?

          • Mike Abramov

            Mr. neluroman – Helen4Yemen is arguing from a racial standpoint. Apparently Ashkenazi Jews are not ‘real’ but pretend Jews to her. I have bounced logic back to her many times, but she is in denial. Good-luck.

          • neluroman

            Yes, you are right Mr. Abramov. Helen has a very veird and biased logic.But as long as she doesn’t want to blow me up I have no any problem with this.Once, a few years ago, I met a man who lost his logic completely at a point. More, he was prepared to effectively fight for his point of view. I am not the one to run away from a good fight, but then my problem was he was not alone- other two men were with him. I said to myself, ” To run away is shameful, but now it is the best solution”. Mr. Abramov, if people only discuss and not fight, I have no any problem with their flawed logic.

          • Mike Abramov

            Sir – I must agree with you. I have offered to set up a dialogue with the PSC but to no avail

          • Helen4Yemen

            How can the European Ashkenazi, with delicate baby soft hands that never touched soil make the desert bloom?

          • Helen4Yemen

            __ Mark Twain: (Concerning the Jews) “Still, almost bereft of employments, he found ways to make money, even ways to get rich. Also ways to invest his takings well, for usury was not denied him. In the hard conditions suggested, the Jew without brains could not survive, and the Jew with brains had to keep them in good training and well sharpened up, or starve. Ages of restriction to the one tool which the law was not able to take from him – his brain – have made that tool singularly competent; ages of compulsory disuse of his hands have atrophied them, and he never uses them now.

          • Helen4Yemen

            {Do you think that a Nobel Prize falls from sky like rain,}

            Yes, it does! It is done via wink-wink between Jewry and the Nobel givers. Fact = fact.,

          • neluroman

            No, it doesn’t! You cannot, simply, bribe someone for a Nobel Prize, believe me.

          • Helen4Yemen

            {Do you think that a Nobel Prize falls from sky like rain,}

            Yes, it does! It is done via wink-wink between Jewry and the Nobel givers. Fact = fact.

          • neluroman

            Seriously!! I look around and don’t see anything created by Arabs, but a lot created by Jews. Dear Helen, what exactly have you (Arabs) created in the last 500 years you think is worth of a Nobel Prize – from literature to science. Can you tell me?

          • Helen4Yemen

            If the Arab chooses to live in a mud hut and eat corn, that is his business.
            The European now squatting on Arab land gotta go!

          • Helen4Yemen

            {24 march 1933 Judea declared war on Germany.}

            The Ashkenazi who make up more than 90% of world Jewry have no connection to Palestine except as converts. Who declared war on Germany were European Ashkenazi since Arab Jews had nothing to do with anything European.

          • Mike Abramov

            Mr. Neluroman – I have read your rebuttal with some interest. This site has attracted many history revisionists. Your input has many valid points.

            The Assyrian Empire is credited with the first ever diaspora of the Jews. The Ten Lost Tribes are a part of this history. My own ancestry are probably the descendants of this period with the possibilty that we are from the tribe of Nathaniel.

            From my mother’s side we go back to Baghdad and from my father’s side Kabul. However, the Assyrian Empire’s demise would have triggered many Hebrews to decide not to return to the Holy Land but to seek their fortunes in the surrounding kingdoms that had more to offer than Judea and Sumaria. This scenario was re-enacted with the demise of the Roman Empire where the Jews primarily went North West to the Black Sea which was fast becoming a major trading center.

            From this, the anti-Israel protagonists have decided to challenge the history books with their own version by stating that the Jews who ultimately ended up in Germany and France post 490 A.C.E were not Jews because they were referred to as Ashenazim. We both know that the name Ashkenaz is derived from the book of Noah in Genesis. From this came the ultimate piece of revisionist history. Khazaria.

            Khazaria was indeed a real kingdom from circa: 800-1,000 A.C.E. The king had converted his nation to practicing Judaism purely to defend his nation from marauding Muslims in the east and crusading Christians in the west. From this brief period of history, the left-wing supporters have re-written history to suggest that the Ashkenazi Jews are pagan converts.

          • Helen4Yemen

            __ { The Assyrian Empire is credited with the first ever diaspora of the Jews. } Which Jews? Nigerian, Ashkenazi, Iraqi?

            __ { My own ancestry are probably the descendants of this period with the possibilty }I am glad you used the word ‘probably’.

            __ { From my mother’s side we go back to Baghdad and from my father’s side Kabul. }Are you then an Arab Jew?

            __ { Roman Empire where the Jews primarily went North West to the Black Sea }Which Jews? Nigerian, Ashkenazi, Iraqi?

            __ { the Jews who ultimately ended up in Germany and France post 490 A.C.E were not Jews because they were referred to as Ashenazim. }Ended up in Germany from where? From Palestine or Khazaria?

            __ { We both know that the name Ashkenaz is derived from the book of Noah in Genesis. From this came the ultimate piece of revisionist history. Khazaria. }

            Ashkenazic Jews are the Jews of France, Germany, and Eastern Europe and their descendants. The adjective “Ashkenazic” and corresponding nouns, Ashkenazi (singular) and Ashkenazim (plural) are derived from the Hebrew word “Ashkenaz,” which is used to refer to Germany. (Source: http://www. jewfaq. org/ashkseph.htm)

            __ { Khazaria was indeed a real kingdom from circa: 800-1,000 A.C.E. The king had converted his nation to practicing Judaism purely to defend his nation from marauding Muslims in the east and crusading Christians in the west. From this brief period of history, the left-wing supporters have re-written history to suggest that the Ashkenazi Jews are pagan converts. }Where are those Khazars who converted to Judaism today? They are the Ashkenazis of today, are they not? Otherwise, you have to tell me where the converted Khazars?

          • neluroman

            Yes, you are right. History is the beatifulest story as long as it is said by true historians. Unfortunately they are an “endangered species” right now

          • Helen4Yemen

            Not one European Ashknazi is a Semite, not one!

          • Helen4Yemen

            the Hebrews = Ashkenazi?

        • Helen4Yemen

          {it was OK as Germany was not the ancestral home of any Jewish people.}

          Always add an adjective before the word ‘Jew’ so that people know what Jew you are referring to since ‘Jews’ just like Muslims and Christians are African, Asian, European, M/E in origin.

      • Seumas Mactalla

        Palestinians are the indigenous people and Palestinian Shami Arabic is their indigenous language. Nobody would say that Scottish English speakers are not indigenous because Glasgow wasnt an English land in the seventh century. They wouldnt say that because it would be meaningless and disingenuous.

        • neluroman

          And what!! Glasgow is an English town now!!!

      • Theo Anonis

        Since WWII, invasion and conquest of land by force is by International
        Law standards, is illegal. So everything that happened prior is
        irrelevant. Yes the Arabs lost. So what. Like the Tibetans,
        and the Timorese (up to 2002) who also lost. Kashmir, the
        same. Occupation is occupation. And, similar to all these,
        Palestinian land is occupied by an invading force. No peace will be
        achieved until Israel removes its forces.

      • Helen4Yemen

        Re-conquest? You mean to imply that white Europeans are only ‘returning’ to a land inhabited by people of color? What happened? Did the Ashkenazi just morph into a white man?

      • Helen4Yemen

        David Ben-Gurion: “The fellahin are not descendants of the Arab conquerors, who captured Eretz Israel and Syria in the seventh century CE. The Arab victors did not destroy the agricultural population they found in the country. They expelled only the alien Byzantine rulers, and did not touch the local population. Nor did the Arabs go in for settlement.

        Translation: The Arabs did not expell the natives of the land and take their place, they did not settle on the land, they were there only to convert the people into Islam, therefore, the current Palestinian population are the descendants of those who wer already there before the arrival of the Arabs.

        David Ben-Gurion: “Even in their former habitations the Arabs did not engage in farming…their whole interest in the new countries was political, religious and material: to rule, to propagate Islam, and to collect taxes…the Jewish farmer, like any other farmer, was not easily torn from his soil…Despite the repression and suffering the rural population remained unchanged.”

        Translation: The Palestinian Jews (who later converted to Christianity and then to Islam) never left their land nor were they replaced by the Arabs. The Arabs did not come to settle on the land but rather “to rule, to propagate Islam, and to collect taxes”. The Jewish farmers were attached to their land. “was not easily torn from his soil” and the current Palestinians are in fact the descendants of the people who were already there on that land before the arrival of the Arabs.

        Question: Is that not your understanding? If no, give me your translation. Interesting that European Jewry, vividly European, are not shy when they make silly statements such as white Europeans having ancestry on the land of people of color!

        • neluroman

          Okay, here is it. When the Roman osccupation became to harsh to be bore by Hebrews (Jews), many of them left the region (75-135) CE, but not all. Many Jewish families chose to remain. Along the time ones became Christians, others were forced to become Muslims and others stubbornly remained Jews. Because Islam is a supremacist religion a country where both Muslims as Jews to have equal rights cannot be. That is why Israel had to be created.

          • Helen4Yemen

            {The Jewish farmers were attached to their land …was not easily torn from his soil} Ben Gurion
            ___
            You still don’t get it? Nobody left! The lily white vividly European Ashkenazi are European who converted in the 9th century.
            Still don’t get it?

          • Helen4Yemen

            Are the Ashkenazi people in Palestine not European foreigners? Here is a test for the European Jews. Look in the mirror, who is staring back? Don’t be shy. Just answer the question —

            a) Chinese
            b) M/E
            c) European
            d) African
            e) Japanese

            What is your answer?

          • neluroman

            My answer is….I am not a Jew. I am from an East European country. I can look into mirror for 100 years, and …….what? It is true, one of my grand grandmother could have been a Jewish woman, but I am not sure. You know, mysterious stories, legends exist in each and every family.

          • Helen4Yemen

            I did not specifically ask you. That quiz test is for any Ashkenazi Jew since there is no other answer they can pick except for c) ‘European’ and they dread the word itself.

          • Helen4Yemen

            “Israel” had to be created as ‘Final Solution’ for the Europeans to cleanse Europe of the Ashkenazis whom they had hated for many centuries. Yes or no?

      • Helen4Yemen

        David Ben-Gurion: “The fellahin are not descendants of the Arab conquerors, who captured Eretz Israel and Syria in the seventh century CE. The Arab victors did not destroy the agricultural population they found in the country. They expelled only the alien Byzantine rulers, and did not touch the local population. Nor did the Arabs go in for settlement.

        Translation: The Arabs did not expell the natives of the land and take their place, they did not settle on the land, they were there only to convert the people into Islam, therefore, the current Palestinian population are the descendants of those who wer already there before the arrival of the Arabs.

        David Ben-Gurion: “Even in their former habitations the Arabs did not engage in farming…their whole interest in the new countries was political, religious and material: to rule, to propagate Islam, and to collect taxes…the Jewish farmer, like any other farmer, was not easily torn from his soil…Despite the repression and suffering the rural population remained unchanged.”

        Translation: The Palestinian Jews (who later converted to Christianity and then to Islam) never left their land nor were they replaced by the Arabs. The Arabs did not come to settle on the land but rather “to rule, to propagate Islam, and to collect taxes”. The Jewish farmers were attached to their land. “was not easily torn from his soil” and the current Palestinians are in fact the descendants of the people who were already there on that land before the arrival of the Arabs.

        Question: Is that not your understanding? If no, give me your translation. Interesting that European Jewry, vividly European, are not shy when they make silly statements such as white Europeans having ancestry on the land of people of color!

      • Helen4Yemen

        {re- conquer of Palestine immoral?}

        Which group of Jew was doing the RE-conquer? The European Ashkenazis?
        It is like saying the white Europeans who colonized Australia were only RE-conquering. You have no shame?

      • Helen4Yemen

        {Of course, this cycle of conquer and re-conquer cannot last forever, someone must put a end to it. And that is what Israel has been trying for years.}

        It ain’t happening. Not only do the white Jews in Palestine look on the Arabs with contempt but also they view the Arab Jews as inferior. A European people belongs in Europe.

      • Helen4Yemen

        __ Jabotinsky “Has any People ever been seen to give up their territory of their own free will? In the same way, the Arabs of Palestine will not renounce their sovereignty without violence. – (1923)

      • Helen4Yemen

        __ Jabotinsky: Zionism is a colonizing adventure and, therefore, it stands or falls on the question of armed forces.

      • Helen4Yemen

        __ Jabotinsky: My readers have a general idea of the history of colonization in other countries. I suggest that they consider all the precedents with which they are acquainted, and see whether there is one solitary instance of any colonization being carried on with the consent of the native population. There is no such precedent. The native populations, civilised or uncivilised, have always stubbornly resisted the colonists, irrespective of whether they were civilised or savage. And it made no difference whatever whether the colonists behaved decently or not.”

      • Helen4Yemen

        {but the Jews don’t forget}

        Are you trying to say ‘the Ashkebazi Jews do not forget’?
        But they need to deal with their European history in Europe.
        A foreign people have no say on stolen Arab land.

    • ray rayz

      There is absolutely no connection between AshkeNAZI Jews and the Judaic religion or region. These Fake Judaic came from Europe 650 years ago. Their DNA shows there is no connection at all. Their origins are from a group of 350 Europeans. Science does not lie but these fake Jews do… For them to claim that they are Judaic is just another fake claim like the Holocaust lie..

      • neluroman

        My friend, you tell only half of the truth, so that it fits into your attempt of mystifying the truth. The truth is this: An international team of scientists announced on September 9, 2014 that
        they had come to the conclusion that all Ashkenazi Jews are descended
        from an original group of about 350 individuals who lived together between 600
        and 800 years ago. These people were of Middle-Eastern and European
        descent.The similarities in the Ashkenazi genomes allowed the scientists to
        identify a base point from which all Ashkenazi Jews descend. According
        to the scientists, this effectively makes all modern Ashkenazi Jews 30th
        cousins, stemming from the same population almost 800 years ago.This discovery also effectively disproves the idea that Ashkenazi Jews
        were descended from Khazars who converted to Judaism during the 8th or
        9th centuries C.E.

        • ray rayz

          by simply googling “ashkenazi jews dna” the first line says…

          According to the most recent DNA findings the Ashkenazi Jews,
          on the maternal side, came from indigenous peoples of Europe and not
          the Near East (Middle East) as previously thought. In other words, the Ashkenazi women converted to Judaism and are related to Europeans rather than semitic people of the Middle East.May 22, 2012″
          https://blog.23andme.com/ancestry/the-uniqueness-of-ashkenazi-jewish-ancestry-is-important-for-health/

        • Helen4Yemen

          {These people were of Middle-Eastern and European
          descent.}

          No genetic connection between Arab Jews and the Ashkenazi. Genetic science does not lie!

          We tested 3,104 Jewish individuals, primarily of Ashkenazi descent, for the two most common FAC mutations, IVS4 and 322delG. Thirty-five IVS4 carriers were identified, for a carrier frequency of 1 in 89. To determine if the IVS4 mutation was confined to the Ashkenazi Jewish population,

          we tested 563 Iraqi Jews for IVS4, and no carriers were found. Because the IVS4 mutation has only been found on chromosomes of Ashkenazi Jewish origin,

          (Source: Laboratory of Human Genetics and Hematology, Rockefeller University, New York, NY 10021-6399, USA)

          • neluroman

            Bla, bla, bla, the same lie over and over again. You continue to fool people, Helen. They (The Laboratory) said something completely different.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Explain this:

            More Ashkenazi Jews Have Gene Defect that Raises Inherited Breast Cancer Risk

            An inherited genetic mutation that increases the risk of breast cancer in Jewish women of Eastern European descent is three times more common than previously estimated, according to a study led by researchers at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York.

            In the October issue of Nature Genetics, the team reports that the BRCA2 gene mutation is found in one out of every 100 Ashkenazi Jews, a group that includes more than 90% of the six million Jews living in the United States. The new estimate is based on an analysis of blood samples from more than 1,200 men and women of Ashkenazi descent.

            Based on the new estimate of the BRCA2 mutation in the Ashkenazi population, the researchers predict that the risk of early-onset breast cancer is increased by 31-fold in Ashkenazi women with the BRCA1 mutation and by nine-fold in those with the BRCA2 mutation, compared to women in the general population.

            http://theoncologist. alphamedpress. org/content/1/5/335.full

      • Helen4Yemen

        They are former Khazars.

        Here is Ralph Schoenman:

        “Mr. Benjamin Netanyahu (real name: Mileikowsky) is descendant from people who have no relation to Palestine, historic or other, because Ashkenazim or European Jews such as Mr. Netanyahu or ourselves for that matter are in fact descendants of the Khazars, an 8th and 9th century empire that converted to Judaism at that time from which European Jews are descended.

    • neluroman

      Anything what I would say in this respect would be of no avail. You are already “frozen” in your concept- Ashkenazis are not true Jews, and they have no rights to Palestine. I know how Arab women are: when they love then love, and when they hate then hate. Nothing and no one can change them.

      • Helen4Yemen

        Explain to me if the German Jew is entitled to Palestine,
        why not the German Christian since Palestine is also holy place for them?
        ___
        January 25, 1904: Herzl Finally Meets the Pope, but the meeting did not go well for him! Here is what the Pope told Herzl:

        “We are unable to favor this movement. We cannot prevent the Jews from going to Jerusalem – but we could never sanction it. The ground of Jerusalem, if it were not always sacred, has been sanctified by the life of Jesus Christ. As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise. The Jews have not recognized our Lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jewish people. Jerusalem cannot be placed in Jewish hands.”

        • neluroman

          In practical terms it is because once upon time there was one so called Saladin (1137-1193) who said: Guys, Palestine is not yours. Go home! Of course, Palestine was not him too, but he had the means to impose his words. In 1948, Saladin was a little busy in Paradise with making love to the forever virgin girls attributed him as a holy warrior. And you know, Helen, men like more to make love than war, and when they make love they usually forget of war. In these conditions Ben Guron said: Guys,” We are here to stay forever. Israel is now our home”. And simply, without Saladin you had no arguments to contradict Ben Gurion.
          Helen, contradict me if you can.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Why don’t you first answer this one for me:

            Are the Ashkenazi-European people in Palestine European foreigners or not? Here is a test for the European Jews. Look in the mirror, who is staring back? Don’t be shy. Just answer the question —

            a) Chinese
            b) M/E
            c) European
            d) African
            e) Japanese

            What is your answer?

          • neluroman

            Here is the answer:C) European. Wow, wow! Stay a minute. That neither adds nor diminishes Jew’s right to a state of their own in Middle East. Now, I me too have two questions for you. In the years 50s, 70s of the last century, thousands and thousands of Jews were “invited” to leave: Iran; Kuwait, Iraq, Yemen, Algeria, Tunisia etc.Had these Jews taken a selfie of themselves their imagine would have been the most probable very much alike with : a) mine’s, b) Emperor Hirohito’s, c) Michelle Obama’s, d) your’s ( a girl from Yemen), e)Vladimir Putin’s. Now, the second question: Where else could these Jews refugees go if not to Israel? And your answer is….???

          • Helen4Yemen

            1- Wow! wow! First time anyone answered it at all! And you answered honestly.
            2- There were no Arab Jewish refugees. Remember that in 1948, there were 850,000 total Arab Jews and one decade after the Ashkenazis erected a state on stolen land, there were still 475,000 Arab Jews still living in their Arab countries. Where is the expulsion? They left drawn by the mirage of their European coreligionist to provide them with a European life style. On the other hand, 900,000 Palestinian were expelled by white Jews with a few months in 1948.

            Here is Benny Morris:

            “That is what Zionism faced. A Jewish state would not have come into being without the uprooting of 700,000 Palestinians. Therefore it was necessary to uproot them. There was no choice but to expel that population. It was necessary to cleanse the hinterland and cleanse the border areas and cleanse the main roads. It was necessary to cleanse the villages from which our convoys and our settlements were fired on.” ” -(Ari Shavit Interviews Benny Morris -Jan 08, 2004 -Haaretz interview -Survival of the fittest.) expulsion

          • Helen4Yemen

            {Iran; Kuwait, Iraq, Yemen, Algeria, Tunisia}
            Middle Eastern

  • Between the Lines

    We will continue to chant “Viva Palestina” in Scotland and wherever we choose.
    Let them imprison us!
    BDS is the moral and personal choice of every individual and no system has the power to stop it.

    • neluroman

      Yeah, yeah the Nazis did the same. The Nazis said “kauft nicht bei Juden”: do not buy from Jews. The slogans of these new racists in Scotland, and not only, are: “kauft nicht beim Judenstaat”: do not buy from the Jewish State. The Nazis continued then with: “Geh nach Palästina, du Jud”: Go to Palestine, you Jew. Racists in Scotland shout ” Viva Palestina” and then, “Jews out of Palestine!” The same cat but with another hat.

      • PJ London

        Long before the Hitler government began restricting the rights of the German Jews, the leaders of the worldwide Jewish community formally declared war on the “New Germany” at a time when the U.S. government and even the Jewish leaders in Germany were urging caution in dealing with the new Hitler regime.
        Mar 24 1933 Daily Express and New York Times.
        Only after this were the laws restricting employment in the government of Jews passed and implemented.
        What the modern Jews call ‘pay back’, but in Israel’s case include state sponsored murder and demolition – destruction of property.
        http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/jdecwar.html
        Of course you don’t want the truth, as Jack Nicholson famously said “You can’t handle the truth!!!”

      • ray rayz

        Now that’s a bit of fiction you have written here… The Ashkenazi Jews declared war on Germany in March 24, 1933. The issue of The Daily Express
        of London described how Jewish leaders, in combination with
        powerful international Jewish financial interests, had launched a boycott
        of Germany for the express purpose of crippling her already precarious
        economy in the hope of bringing down the new Hitler regime. It was only
        then that Germany struck back in response. Thus, if truth be told, it
        was the worldwide Jewish leadership – not the Third Reich – that effectively
        fired the first shot in the Second World War.

        As for using the term “Racist” here is totally incorrect as the AshkeNAZI Jews are NOT a race and never will be either a race or Judaic. and their origins only go back 650 years to Europe. These are the fake Jews and it is these fake Jews that are the most anti Semitic people on this planet.
        These AshkeNAZI Jews should all be rounded up and placed in a Guantanamo style prison and should never be released so that the human race can live in peace.

        • Huliapole

          That is correct. The jews are not a people, not a race, they are member of an very obscure creed. Onze again: Reed Israel Shahak; Jewish History, Jewish Religion, The Weight of Three Thousand Years PDF . PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION TO CHAPTER 5: THE LAWS AGAINST NON JEWS !!!!

          The earliest code of talmudic law which is still of major importance is the
          Mishneh Torah written by Moses Maimonides in the late 12th century. The most
          authoritative code, widely used to date as a handbook, is the Shulhan ‘Arukh
          composed by R. Yosef Karo in the late 16th century as a popular condensation of his
          own much more voluminous Beys Yosef which was intended for the advanced
          scholar. The Shulhan ‘Arukh is much commented upon; in addition to classical
          commentaries dating from the 17th century, there is an important 20th century one,
          Mishnah Berurah
          . Finally, the Talmudic Encyclopedia – a modern compilation published in Israel from the 1950s and edited by the country’s greatest Orthodox rabbinical scholars – is a good compendium of the whole talmudic literature.
          Murder and Genocide
          According to the Jewish religion, the murder of a Jew is a capital offense and
          one of the three most heinous sins (the other two being idolatry and adultery). Jewish
          religious courts and secular authorities are commanded to punish, even beyond the
          limits of the ordinary administration of justice, anyone guilty of murdering a Jew. A
          Jew who indirectly causes the death of another Jew is, however, only guilty of what
          talmudic law calls a sin against the ‘laws of Heaven’, to be punished by God rather
          than by man.
          [76]
          Jewish History, Jewish Religion
          — 65 —
          When the victim is a Gentile, the position is quite different. A Jew who murders
          a Gentile is guilty only of a sin against the laws of Heaven, not punishable by a court.
          (1) To cause indirectly the death of a Gentile is no sin at all. (2)
          Thus, one of the two most important commentators on the Shulhan Arukh
          explains that when it comes to a Gentile, ‘one must not lift one’s hand to harm him,
          but one may harm him indirectly, for instance by removing a ladder after he had
          fallen into a crevice … there is no prohibition here, because it was not done directly’
          (3) He points out, however, that an act leading indirectly to a Gentile’s death is
          forbidden if it may cause the spread of hostility towards Jews. (4)
          A Gentile murderer who happens to be under Jewish jurisdiction must be
          executed whether the victim was Jewish or not. However, if the victim was Gentile
          and the murderer converts to Judaism, he is not punished. (5)
          All this has a direct and practical relevance to the realities of the State of Israel.
          Although the state’s criminal laws make no distinction between Jew and Gentile, such
          distinction is certainly made by Orthodox rabbis, who in guiding their flock follow the
          Halakhah. Of special importance is the advice they give to religious soldiers.
          Since even the minimal interdiction against murdering a Gentile outright
          applies only to ‘Gentiles with whom we [the Jews] are not at war’, various rabbinical
          commentators in the past drew the logical conclusion that in wartime all Gentiles
          belonging to a hostile population may, or even should be killed. (6) Since 1973 this
          doctrine is being publicly propagated for the guidance of religious Israeli soldiers.
          The first such official exhortation was included in a booklet published by the Central
          Region Command of the Israeli Army, whose area includes the West Bank.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Yes, ‘the Jews’ are not a race since they are African, Asian, European, Arab and so on. However, the Ashkenazis are a race of European people formerly known as ‘Khazars’.

          • neluroman

            Helen, a lie repeated over and over again eventually becomes a truth for some gullible people, right? That is what you try to do here, don’t you ?

          • Helen4Yemen

            Then you have to come forward and tell me the Jews of Zimbabwe are indeed your blood relatives.

            Zimbabwe black Jews should do Aliyah

            It may sound like another myth of a lost tribe of Israel, but British scientists have carried out DNA tests which have confirmed their Semitic origin.

            “They have a common ancestor who geneticists say lived about 3,000 years ago somewhere in north Arabia, which is the time of Moses and Aaron when the Jewish priesthood started.”

            Despite their ties to Judaism, many of the Lemba in Zimbabwe are Christians, while some are Muslims.
            “So it’s the closest descendant of the Ark that we know of,” Prof Parfitt says.

            http://news .bbc. co. uk/2/hi/8550614.stm

          • Huliapole

            Absolute nonsens. The average genomen of the jews is not different of that of Europeans. Only the Cohens have a specific genomen. The Ark story nonsens is stolen from the Gilgamesh epos. If you read: The Bible Unearthed of Silberman and Finkelstein you will get ackowledged by the fact that the bible isn’t a historybook. It is a polemic pamflet of the monotheists against the poylytheists and written around the 7 th century BC. It is as “true” as the Ilias of Homerus. Nice stories but just fairytales.

          • Mike Abramov

            Correction my friend. The Bible was written after the first disapora in the 5th century BCE. Prior to that, the stories were handed down father to son.

          • neluroman

            Bible is not a history book, although some of the facts descripted in it are accurate from a historical point of view. But, for the sake of the argument, let’s say you are right in regard to Bible. Now, tell me what “HOLY” book resists to a scientific scrutiny. Tell me which one, and I make tabula rasa of it, from a scientific point of view of course, 110 %

          • Huliapole

            I don’t care about holy books in general because mostly they are not used to occupy people and terrorize them . Your “holy book” which is full of nonsens however is abused to legitimate a colonial apartheid state and that’s the reason I despice it.

          • Mike Abramov

            Huliapole – I don’t what you are rabitting on about. EVERY civilisation has their own version of the great flood, Ark story, and Noah. Finklestein is a revisionist, so I would take his book and use it for toilet paper. The fact remains that although the timescale of the bible is speculative, that is irrelevant because up to Josephus, there was very little being recorded. Even the New Testament cannot verify where Jesus was from age 18 to age 30.

          • Huliapole

            You are an ignorant. I am not referring to Norman Finkelstein but to IsraelFinkelstein who together with Silberman wrote : The Bible Unearthed

          • Mike Abramov

            Thank you. I have just googled the book. It looks very readable. By-the-way, Finlkestein is a common Jewish name and I have probably read many more books than you.

          • Huliapole

            Good for you but obviously your mind didn’t clear up bij reading more books than me.
            So leave the books, For you it is waisted money and time and try work in the garden. Believe me, it is better for your mental health

          • Helen4Yemen

            Hehe!

          • Mike Abramov

            Sir – Before you make comments about the beautiful language of English, I suggest you check your spelling and grammar.

            I know when a recipient is losing the argument. The replies become personal.

          • Huliapole

            GIVE ARGUMENTED FACTS NOT YOUR OPINION

          • Mike Abramov

            OK – Give me something to argue about.

          • Helen4Yemen

            { Finlkestein is a common Jewish name}

            No, Finkelstein is only an Ashkenazi name since Arab Jews have Arabic name (Paula Abdul, Rabbi “Ovadia” Abdullah Yousef). . Nigerian Jews have Nigerian names, Ethiopian Jews have Ethiopian names, Chinese Jews have Chinese names.

          • Helen4Yemen

            ( Only the Cohens have a specific genomen.)

            Who are these ‘Cohens’? If they are Ashkenazi, then they dna is like the rest of the Ashkenazi. Period!

          • neluroman

            Dear Helen, we can contradict each other until Nile freezes, it would be to no avail. It seems to me we cannot arrive to the same conclusion when it is about Israel’s legitimacy. You say “no” I say “yes”, no, yes, no, yes, and that is all. Helen, let me try a much more practical approach. United Nations, the most authoritative body on our planet,has a very clear modus operandi when it comes to investigating the legitimation of a groups of people’s request for having a country of themselves. That includes taking into consideration criteria like: a different history compared to the populations surrounding them, different language, different traditions, how secular these differences are and so on. But, what it is the most important is how those groups of people feel about themselves. On base of such criteria states like: Pakistan, Bangladesh, Eritrea, East Timor, South Sudan, Iraq, Syria, Oman, Kuwait, Jordan, Kosovo and Israel have been created. Let’s take two example, Pakistan and Kosovo. Beginning with the 12th century, Arab armies started conquering India, converting to Islam, more forced than not, millions and millions of Hindus. In the 16th century almost all India was ruled by Muslims. Then, slowly but firmly, India was taken over by the British Empire. When in 1947 India finally found its independence, the descendants of those former Hindus, but at that moment Muslims, said: “A moment! We are no more Hindus, we are no more Indians. We want a country of ourselves.” And UN deliberated and deliberated and eventually agreed to the request of these Indian Muslims. That is how these former Indians became Pakistanis; that is how Pakistan was created as a different country from India. The same can be said about Kosovo. The land of Kosovo is where Serbian history started. Then Ottoman Empire conquered the land converting a lot of Serbian Christians to Islam. Centuries later these former Christians, former Serbians wanted this land only for themselves, and a part of International Community said, “yes”. Helen, that means Pakistanis and Kosovars stole their country from India, respectively Serbia? That is what you think? How Israel was created is not different, the criteria that stood at the base of Pakistan creation stood at the base of Israel creation too. If you deny Israel’s right to exist you deny at the same time Pakistan’s right to exist. Helen, you must judge things with the same stick, do you? What about Ashkenazis’ right to be Jews, I have an explanation; too, so if you are interested in, let me know.

          • Eduardo Pinha

            great explanation!

          • Huliapole

            Your story looks nice but is utterly incorrect. The essential difference between Pakistan/ Kosovo and occupied Palestine is the fact that the very big majority of the jews invaded this territory after 1880. The Kosovars and the Pakistanis lived for the most allready centuries in their respective countries. The only thing to do there was changing the name of their territory in Pakistan resp. Kosovo. The jews who allready lived in Palestine for centuries had a good relationship with their fellow non-jewish Palestinians, because that is what it was. The people living there who were not muslim Palestinians were jewish Palestinians and by the invasion of people whose ancestors never had the slightest relationship with Palestine came to Palestine and claimed this land of it’s original inhabitants saying:”my grand, grand.,grand, grand, grand, grand, grand father lived here and I claim this land as his heir, As the Khazars converted to the jewish creed in 9 th-10 th century it is absolutely certain that their heirs have no ties to occupied Palestine although they claim the contrary. The rights of the Askenazy jews on occupied Palestine is imaginary, nonsens and a fairytale

          • neluroman

            You are wrong, my story is correct, the problem is with you- you didn’t understand my essence of what I said. Yes, Pakistanis and Kosovars have lived on their land for centuries, but so have the Jews. At least some thousands of them. These Jews have never left Palestine. And if groups of a few thousands of people have got the right to have a country of themselves in the Arabian Peninsula, I refer here to minuscule states like Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain or even Lebanon, why then would Jews not have this right too? Really why? Therefore I said that Jews have been in Palestine for centuries, exactly like Kosovars and Pakistanis, and exactly like them they are – in fact always have been – a population very distinct from the populations that surrendered them. That is the essence of what I said. You claim: ” The jews who allready lived in Palestine for centuries had a good relationship with their fellow non-jewish Palestinians”. First off, what Palestinians are you referring to? The Ottomans who ruled this region for 400 years have never referred to people from Palestine with the term: Palestinians. In all their written documents, people from Palestine were referred to as Muslims, Jews and Christians. Contradict me if you can. Then, never ever in a Muslim dominated country non-Muslims have been equal to Muslims, the Islamic law (Sharia) doesn’t allow this .”… that the very big majority of the jews invaded this territory 9Palestine) after 1880,” you claim. Ha, ha, ha! That is good, very good. My friend, it seems to me you have no any problem with Jews being forced out of their land, centuries ago, but you have a problem with Jews returning to their ancient land. More than that, you practically say that Jews “invaded” the Ottoman Empire. Yes, because in 1880 Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire. I am an expert in history and religion, and it is for first time when I hear that the Ottoman Empire was invaded by Jews. And I thought I know everything about Ottomans, but you tell me I don’t. Wow! In conclusion, my friend, in the wake of Ottoman Empire’s collapse, a few populations from Arabian Peninsula reclaimed the land they have lived for centuries as their country, among them were the Jews too. Because your biased educational system you are a little parallel with history and with thinking logically and unbiasedly, but, fortunately, you are not parallel with humor too, 110%.

          • Huliapole

            Historical political entities

            Ancient

            Philistia, a name used in the Bible to refer to a pentapolis in the Southern Levant, established by Philistines c.1175 BC and existing in various forms until the Assyrian conquest in the 8th century BC
            Palaistinê or Palaestina names used by Greek and Romans to refer to parts of the Levant during the Persian and Hellenistic periods
            I can contradict you an d I do
            Syria Palaestina or Roman Palestine, a Roman province (135-390 CE), a province of the Roman Empire following merger of renamed Iudaea with Roman Syria
            Palaestina Prima, a Byzantine province in the Levant from 390 to ca. 636, comprising the Galilee and northern Jordan Valley
            Palaestina Secunda, a Byzantine province in the Levant from 390 to ca. 636, comprising the shoreline and hills of the Southern Levant (Judea and Samaria)
            Palaestina Salutaris alias Palestina Tertia, a Byzantine province established in the 6th century, covering the Negev and Transjordan

            Modern

            Jund Filastin (638 – 10th century), one of the military districts of the Umayyad and Abbasid Caliphate province of Bilad al-Sham (Syria)
            Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem (1872-1917), also known as the “Sanjak of Jerusalem”, an Ottoman district commonly referred to as “Southern Syria” or “Palestine”. The district encompassed Jerusalem, Gaza, Jaffa, Hebron, Bethlehem and Beersheba.
            Mandatory Palestine (1920–1948), a geopolitical entity under British administration

            The jews were mot forced out of their land. In fact their were huge jewish minorities living allover the Levant, even before Jezus Chriost

          • Helen4Yemen

            ( Yes, Pakistanis and Kosovars have lived on their land for centuries, but so have the Jews)

            So have the Ashkenazi Jews? Laughiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing!

          • Helen4Yemen

            {At least some thousands of them.}

            You mean those who fled Europe and was living in Muslim countries?

          • Helen4Yemen

            {These Jews have never left Palestine.}

            If they are indigenous Jews,true. But they have nothing in common with the white Jew except for religious rituals.

          • Helen4Yemen

            ( I refer here to minuscule states like Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain or even Lebanon, why then would Jews not have this right too? Really why?)

            Are you that dumb?

            __ Jabotinsky “A voluntary reconciliation with the Arabs is out of the question either now or in the future. If you wish to colonize a land in which people are already living, you must provide a garrison for the land, or find some rich man or benefactor who will provide a garrison on your behalf. Or else-or else, give up your colonization, for without an armed force which will render physically impossible any attempt to destroy or prevent this colonization, colonization is impossible, not difficult, not dangerous, but IMPOSSIBLE!… Zionism is a colonization adventure and therefore it stands or falls by the question of armed force. It is important… to speak Hebrew, but, unfortunately, it is even more important to be able to shoot – or else I am through with playing at colonizing.” Vladimir Jabotinsky, founder of Revisionist Zionism (precursor of Likud), The Iron Wall, 1923 (1923)

          • Helen4Yemen

            Why did you not ask Balfour to give you Israel?

            Balfour “His Majesty’s Government view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.” The Balfour Declaration to Baron Rothchild, on the 2nd of November, 1917:

          • Helen4Yemen

            ((The people living there who were not muslim Palestinians were jewish Palestinians and by the invasion of people whose ancestors never had the slightest relationship with Palestine came to Palestine and claimed this land of it’s original inhabitants saying:”my grand, grand.,grand, grand, grand, grand, grand father lived here and I claim this land as his heir, ))

            Yea, a smart people who suddenly decide to play dumb when they want to grab free Arab land.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Excellent post!

          • Helen4Yemen

            (On base of such criteria states like: Pakistan, Bangladesh, Eritrea, East Timor, South Sudan, Iraq, Syria, Oman, Kuwait, Jordan, Kosovo and Israel have been created.)

            All the places you mentioned are indigenous peoples except for one which is a colonial settler project just like the French in Algeria. Guess to tell me which one is now inhabited by people who came from far-far away, an alien people, a people who had never set foot on that land until the stampede begun to colonize it. Which one is it?

          • Huliapole

            You don’t know if the Khazars were a race. In fact they were Göktürkish people. The Turks are they a race? I doubt it

          • Helen4Yemen

            Here is Ralph Schoenman

            “Mr. Benjamin Netanyahu (real name: Mileikowsky) is descendant from people who have no relation to Palestine, historic or other, because Ashkenazim or European Jews such as Mr. Netanyahu or ourselves for that matter are in fact descendants of the Khazars, an 8th and 9th century empire that converted to Judaism at that time from which European Jews are descended.

          • Huliapole

            That is not an answer to my question.

          • Mike Abramov

            Correct…she does not answer questions. My guess is that she does not have answers, only other people’s ‘quotes’.

          • Helen4Yemen
          • Huliapole

            Yes , I bought it half a year ago and have it on my bookshelf. However I did’t find the time yet to read The Invention of the Jewish people. As you inform me and I can see I can read Arthur Koestler on the internet . This afternoon I just bought a book about colonial Dutch atrocities in the former dutch colony of Indonesia ( De brandende kampongs van generaal Spoor= the burning villages( kampongs ) of general Spoor ) and a book about secret spy operations from the west in the Warschaupactcountries during the fifties and sixties.( samen met de CIA. Operaties achter het ijzeren gordijn= Together with the CIA. Operating behind the iron curtain) I don;t no where to find the time reading all this . But I have to because it strenghts my opinion that we in the west with our so called “democracy, respect for human rights and liberty ” are just a bunch of sickening hypocrites

          • Helen4Yemen

            1- ODED YINON – The Zionist Plan for the Midde East http://www.globalresearch.*ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815

            2- The Edwin M Wright Interview: https://www.*trumanlibrary.*org/oralhist/wright.htm

            (remove *)

          • Mike Abramov

            Shlomo Sand was born in Mauthausen….suffers from issues of identity confusion but, loves Israel. Work that one out.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Tell me of one “Jew” who does not love Israel?
            Like the rest, Sand says let “Jews” keep 80% and give 20% to the natives.

          • Helen4Yemen

            The same way the British loved Nairobi, Kenya and the French loved Algiers in Algeria. European colonists are known to fall in love with their colonized lands and the Euro-Ashkenaz is no different.

          • Huliapole

            Helen4Yemen This was a wrong reaction Sorry for that .

          • Helen4Yemen

            No need to apologize. You should always speak your mind. I sent you two links for two articles and if you find the time, you must read them, you can learn so much from both.

          • Helen4Yemen

            __ Arthur Koestler: “The large majority of surviving Jews in the world is of Eastern European-and thus perhaps mainly of Khazar origin. If so this would mean that their ancestors came not from the Jordan but from the Volga, not from Canaan but from the Caucasus, once believed to be the cradle of the Aryan race; and that genetically they are more closely related to the Hun, Uigur, and Magyar tribes than to the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Should this turn out to be the case then the term “anti-Semitism” would become void of meaning, based on a misapprehension shared by both the killers and their victims.”

            __ Shlomo Sand: “As far back as 1828, the Ribal (Rabbi Yitzhak Ber Levinson) said that the ancient language of the Jews was not Yiddish. Even Ben Zion Dinur, the father of Israeli historiography, was not hesitant about describing the Khazars as the origin of the Jews in Eastern Europe, and describes Khazaria as ‘the mother of the diasporas’ in Eastern Europe. But more or less since 1967, anyone who talks about the Khazars as the ancestors of the Jews of Eastern Europe is considered naive and moonstruck.”

          • Mike Abramov

            If anyone believes that the Ashkenazim were originally Kkazars, they are idiots.

          • Huliapole

            That;s is not a fact , that’s your personal opinion with which I can’t do anything. You better should give proof that the Askenazy jews are not descendants of the Khazars. Claiming that one who says this with historical proof, is an idiot makes a fool of yourself.

          • Mike Abramov

            The Khazar question has been addressed in previous replies many time before. However, for your sake here is the answer.

            The name Ashkenazi is taken from the book of Genesis. The Ashkenazi name was applied to those Jews that settled in NE Germany from about the 8th century until the expulsions a few hundred years later. The language of Yiddish evolved from this period of Jewish history which was made up of a mix of Hebrew, German, Polish and Russian words. King Cazimir lll welcomed the Jews 1335 in to Poland after the Jews were no longer allowed to trade in Germany. They needed an educated class.

            The Khazar story is vastly different. Between about 700 ACE and 1000 ACE Khazaria (a country in Caucases) was neither Christian or Muslim. So, the king converted his people to the Jewish faith to avoid having to show allegiance to the Christians or Muslims. Jewish ambassadors from the Spanish and Arab world made visits to this kingdom to see for themselves this ‘unusual’ conversion to this benign (non-evangelical) faith.

            Now proove I am wrong!!!

          • Helen4Yemen

            Does ‘descent’ mean anything other than ‘ancestry’?

            1- Ashkenazi Jewish Carrier Testing The term Ashkenazi refers to individuals descended from the medieval Jewish communities of the Rhineland in the west of Germany. Many Ashkenazi Jews (AJ) migrated to other parts of Europe, with the majority migrating eastward.(UCSFhealth . org)
            2- Some genetic disorders are more prevalent in the Jewish population originating from Eastern and Central Europe. This group is known as Ashkenazi. (Progenity . com)
            3- Ashkenazi Jews are descendants of Jews from Central and Eastern Europe (eg, Germany, France, Poland, Hungary, Russia, Ukraine, Lithuania), while Sephardic Jews are descendants of Jews from Spain, Portugal, and North Africa. (uptodate. com)
            4- Tay-Sachs carriers are found most frequently among families of eastern European Jewish descent (Ashkenazi Jews) – (Tay-Sachs . org)
            5- The term Ashkenazi refers to individuals descended from the medieval Jewish communities of the Rhineland in the west of Germany. Many Ashkenazi Jews (AJ) migrated to other parts of Europe, with the majority migrating eastward. (UCSFhealth. org)
            6- Tay-Sachs Disease is an autosomal recessive neurodegenerative disorder that is typically fatal within the first two or three years of life. Its incidence is highest among Ashkenazi Jews (Jews of Eastern European descent), approximately 100 times higher than in the general population. (http://education .med. nyu. edu/)
            7- CD is two-to-four times more prevalent among individuals of Ashkenazi Jewish descent compared to non-Jewish Europeans. aimed at exploring genetic variation associated with CD in Jewish individuals of Eastern and Central European decent (Ashkenazi Jews) (http://www. feinsteininstitute. org/)
            8- The Center currently screens for 19 disorders found most frequently in Ashkenazi Jews of Central and Eastern European descent Jews.(www .jewishgenetics. org)
            9- Jewish genetic diseases are a group of disorders that occur with higher frequency in the Jewish population. The Ashkenazi Jews, those whose ancestors were from Central and Eastern Europe (i.e. Poland, Russia, Germany, Lithuania, etc.) are at higher risk than the general population for several genetic diseases. (www.templebeth-el. com)

          • Helen4Yemen

            proove PROVE

          • Huliapole

            Yes proof, proof, proof and not “proove” and telling nonsens

          • Huliapole

            You Zionists areaccording your holy fairytalebook not entitled to Palestine. In your holy fairytalebook is written that “the jewish people” ( whatever that may be ) invaded Palestine and murdered, expelled an ethnically cleansed the original inhabitants, the Canaites, just as the zionists do this allover again today. So what right, what right on Palestine? You have no right. Stay either in the desert or conquer Bavaria.

          • Huliapole

            This is no proof. You give your own story. A scientific proof should at least entail the mentioning of sources. You don’t do that. In fact you tell the story of Arthur Koestler with whom you don’t agree. Strange fellow you are
            And what is your answer on my comment on the ethnic cleansing of the Canaites which is told in your fairytalebook? No answer?

          • Huliapole

            Yes proof, proof, proof and not “proove” and telling nonsens. This answer is addressed to Abramow

          • Mike Abramov

            I was right. You are just like the Nazis. You define people by their race and not their souls.

          • Mike Abramov

            Huliapole – you are a NAZI. This is EXACTLY what the Nazis tried to instill in to the minds of the simple German folk who were recovering from hyper-inflation. Israel is one of the most non-religious countries in the entire Middle East and N. Africa. This is why Israel allows Gay Pride days and religion is an option and not forced upon the individual….and you want to get rid of this country…..Hamas will have a field day beheading gay Arabs. Is that what you want?

        • Mike Abramov

          It has often been said that there is no difference between the extreme left of politics and the extreme right. You are both devout anti-Semites.

          • Helen4Yemen

            You mean hater of Semites?

          • Huliapole

            Really?

          • Mike Abramov

            OK – I have a sense of humour too.

          • ray rayz

            You are so boring repeating the usual crap… Please explain to me your basis to claim that I am anti-Semitic when I criticise AshkeNAZI fake Jews…

          • Mike Abramov

            Simple. you add the word NAZI at the end of Ashke. Is that boring enough for you? Does that answer your question?

            Being a Jew has nothing to do with birth right. I know many Jews that do not connect to their Jewish upbringing. Being a Jew is in one’s soul. One feels Jewish. When I go to Israel, I feel a sense of belonging and do not want to come back to where I live. There is a spiritual connection that many Jews have with Israel that is not something that is easily put in to words. In life, one eventually becomes more attuned to the soul and consequently we become sensitive to places that emanate a certain atmosphere. Jerusalem is my spiritual home.

        • Helen4Yemen

          {the AshkeNAZI Jews are NOT a race and never will be either a race or Judaic}

          Actually, the Ashkenazis are a race all on their own. They are the former Khazars who converted to Judaism and started calling themselves ‘Jews”. 40 genetic diseases that affect no other groups of people at such high rates is all the genetic scientific evidence that one needs. Many of the scientific journals explained the reason for these genetic diseases so prevalent among this group due to the fact that the Ashkenazis breed almost exclusively among other Ashkenazis.

          • ray rayz

            Hence proving that they are NOT from the Semitic tribes, they have never had a connection to the region and they are mental misfits from their inbreeding…

      • Huliapole

        I have to add the following to the comment of Ray Rayz. In fact the zionists were against a boycot of Germany. The zionists cooperated with the nazis and were their best friends. This is demonstrated by the so called Ha’avara Abkommen ( Ha’avara agreement ) between the zionists and nazi Germany. Goebbels was granted a medal from the Juedische Rundschau ( a german jewish newspaper ) . On one side of this medal was engraved the star of David, on the other side their was the swastika. Furthermore the Palestinians and all their supporters over the world are not demanding that the jews should leave Palestine. Only the despicable zionist ideology with its inherent colonial racist character has to be abolished and equal rights have to be guaranteed fort every citizen. Jew, Muslim and Christian. See: Israel Shahak: Jewish History, Jewish Relegion, The Weight of Three Thousand Years PDF to get acquinted with the real character of the jewish creed. See: lenni Brenner; Zionism in the Age of Dictators PDF

        • Helen4Yemen

          You must first tell me for what reason should Arab land be made to absorb so many of the white Jews of the West that the West does not want in the West?

          • Huliapole

            There is none

        • Helen4Yemen

          {are not demanding that the jews should leave Palestine.}

          “The Jews”? No, if you are referring to the indigenous Jews of the land, yes. But all other African, Asian, European Jews have no justification for being there except as bandits, as predators, as leeches!

          • Mike Abramov

            Well, I suggest you go back home too…where ever that is. How dare you come to this land and become the archetypal foreigner with an opinion.

          • Helen4Yemen

            In your own words, give me one good reason why the Ashkenazis are in Palestine?

          • Mike Abramov

            Simple. The Nazis tried to destroy the Jewish population of all the lands they conquered. This included the Sephardi Jews of Italy and Salonika. At the end of WW2, Europe was devastated. The Jews had lost everything, their homes, their possessions and of course their lives. America was difficult to flee to. The Jews that tried to return back to their lands of birth were no longer welcome (Polish Pogrom of 1946) and Palestine (Israel) was their best chance of recovering something of their ruined lives.

            As I have told you before, being a Jew is in the soul and not in the skin colour. So, if you are endorsing Benny Morris, he too is Ashkenazi, but a Jew without a Jewish soul.

          • Helen4Yemen

            ( The Nazis tried to destroy the Jewish population)

            The Nazis never touched Arabs Jews, did they?
            The only went after the Ashkenazis, didn’t they?

          • Mike Abramov

            So, why didn’t the Nazis murder Jews from the Arab lands? Well you are obviously totally ignorant of the history of WW2. The Nazis invaded N. Africa to gain access to the Libyan oil wells and not to colonise the area. Gen. Montgomery was instrumental in stopping the advance of the 8th Army. This was the pivotal point of the war. The Americans came in and started the liberation of Europe in Italy (Monte Casino) along with the British army.

            Helen – you are either uneducated or stupid. I am not sure which, but either way your hatred of Zionism is really quite vile and I question your concept of humanity and the world. Please see a psychiatrist.

          • Huliapole

            Theft and robbery from a gentile are allowed under the jewish law. The Arenda system in Eastern Europe where the non jewish population suffered under the hegemony of the jews for centuries

          • Helen4Yemen

            Holocaust, pogroms, expulsions were performed by white European against white ‘Jews’. ‘Antisemitism’ is totally a European affair. Arab Jews had nothing to do with European Jewry – nothing – two totally separate peoples.

          • Helen4Yemen

            – uneducated?
            – stupid?
            – see a psychiatrist.?

            This from someone who care barely spell? You resort to insults because there are no words that you can come up with to defend your case, because your case indefensible.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Did they try to go go Cyrus, Madagascar, South Africa, Argentina, Brazil, Mexico?
            Or was it only Palestine with the intention to colonize it?

          • Mike Abramov

            Palestine was Arabised after 620 ACE by COLONIAL settlors called Muslims. Many Jews converted to Islam to avoid being killed. Archaelogical evidence has been found in digs below many Arab villages to produce the evidence.

            The Jews were incarcerated in Cyprus by the British between 1946 and 1948. However, some Jews who were not Zionist, went to South America and Mexico.

            You see, Israel is the home of the spiritual home Jewish people whether you like it or not.

          • Helen4Yemen

            The Question was did the white “Jews” attempt to flee to:
            1- Argentina?
            2- Cyprus?
            3- South Africa?
            4- Brazil
            5- Mexico?
            6- Madagascar

            The answer is no,no,no,no,no,no! They tried to land in America, and America shut the door on their faces!

            What has the question of did the Jews land elsewhere have to do with 620 ace, Mr. uneducated. The people of Palestine are Muslims exactly like the Muslims of Indonesia, they are natives who converted to Islam.

            Ben Gurion said the Palestinians are those who were on that soil. Was he right or wrong?

            David Ben-Gurion: “The fellahin are not descendants of the Arab conquerors, who captured Eretz Israel and Syria in the seventh century CE. The Arab victors did not destroy the agricultural population they found in the country. They expelled only the alien Byzantine rulers, and did not touch the local population. Nor did the Arabs go in for settlement.

            Translation: The Arabs did not expel the natives of the land and take their place, they did not settle on the land, they were there only to convert the people into Islam, therefore, the current Palestinian population are the descendants of those who were already there before the arrival of the Arabs.

            David Ben-Gurion: “Even in their former habitations the Arabs did not engage in farming…their whole interest in the new countries was political, religious and material: to rule, to propagate Islam, and to collect taxes…the Jewish farmer, like any other farmer, was not easily torn from his soil…Despite the repression and suffering the rural population remained unchanged.”

            Translation: The Palestinian Jews (who later converted to Christianity and then to Islam) never left their land nor were they replaced by the Arabs. The Arabs did not come to settle on the land but rather “to rule, to propagate Islam, and to collect taxes”. The Jewish farmers were attached to their land. “was not easily torn from his soil” and the current Palestinians are in fact the descendants of the people who were already there on that land before the arrival of the Arabs.

            Question: Is that not your understanding? If no, give me your translation. Interesting that European Jewry, vividly European, are not shy when they make silly statements such as white Europeans having ancestry on the land of people of color!

        • Eduardo Pinha

          You are disgusting

          • Huliapole

            Yes, The truth is in most cases disgusting. But what is most disgusting is the fact that there is a category of people to which you should be counted, which refuse to acknowledge the truth and deny the truth by their hypocritical stand. And by the way. What do you have for arguments , beside ” you are disgusting” which is not an argument, nor a fact but just an opinion, to refute the facts mentioned by me? And please, I beg you to refute the facts I mentioned ONLY by facts NOT by sheer opinions, but I presume you are unable to refute them, because how to refute facts other than by denying them?

          • Eduardo Pinha

            How can I argue with you. You don´t see jewish as people, denies it´s right to self determination and adovocates toward a situation where jews could easily be exterminated. So why should I bother discussing facts with you. Haters gonna hate. And you are disgusting.

          • Huliapole

            Yes I am disgusting. It even is a fact that the Stern gang Lohamei Herut Israel – Lehi offered the Nazis to cooperate with them. After the war the socalled Ankara papers were discovered in the German embassy in Ankara. The Sterngang was a Zionist paramilitary organization founded by Avraham (“Yair”) Stern in Mandatory Palestine.Its avowed aim was to evict the British authorities from Palestine by resort to force, allowing unrestricted immigration of Jews and the formation of a Jewish state, a ‘new totalitarian Hebrew republic’.It was initially called the National Military Organization in Israel, upon being founded in August 1940, but was renamed Lehi one month later.It defined itself as a terrorist group.

            Lehi split from the Irgun militant group in 1940 in order to continue fighting the British during World War II. Lehi initially sought an alliance with Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, offering to fight alongside them against the British in return for the transfer of all Jews from Nazi-occupied Europe to Palestine.Believing that Nazi Germany was a lesser enemy of the Jews than Britain, Lehi twice attempted to form an alliance with the Nazis. During World War II it declared that it would establish a Jewish state based upon “nationalist and totalitarian principles”. After Stern’s death in 1942, the new leadership of Lehi began to move it towards support for Joseph Stalin’s Soviet Union. In 1944 Lehi officially declared its support for National Bolshevism. It said that its National Bolshevism involved an amalgamation of left-wing and right-wing political elements – Stern said Lehi incorporated elements of both the left and the right – however this change was unpopular and Lehi began to lose support as a result.

          • Mike Abramov

            Huliapole – OK, if that is the route you are going to take, here is my rebuttal. In 1967 Nasser wanted to ‘cleanse’ Israel of all it’s Jews that were not born there before 1948. Racist enough for you. In 1972, Black September murdered 11 Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics. In 1976 Baader Meinhof commandeered an Air France flight and took the plane to majority Muslim Uganda to use the passengers as hostages. The plane was full of Jewish passengers.

            Hamas have instigated every single war in Gaza risking the lives of the innocent Gazans for their fanatical madness in trying to rid Israel of it’s rightful place in the Middle East.

            Yes my friend, if you want to draw parallels, you are supporting not the Palestinian people, but the disgusting ‘no holds barred’ extremists who will run Palestine with an iron fist just like all the other dictatorships in the Middle East.

            Get real mate, there is a reason why 1,000,000 Arabs have chosen to live in Israel and not in Gaza or the West Bank.

          • Huliapole

            I am NOT your friend , NEITHER your mate . I am your enemy. The things you mention? A small repayment in comparison for the criminal biological war of th ezuionists against the Palestinians, the Syrians and the Egyptinas in 1948 ( article Avner Cohen ) and the ethnic cleansing of Palestine ( Ilan Papé ) In fact I am fed up with you. I am not continuing to react on your utterly nonsens anymore.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Please understand that his position is totally indefensible and therefore unable to answer he looks up his manual from Hasbara Central on how to respond to some questions.

          • Huliapole

            If I were him, I would question the capabilities and expertise of his Hasbara councelers. They give him just unusable arguments. I stop trying to discuss with this Alfred Rosenberg traineé. Helen4Yemen, I hope to meet you again in another discussion. Cooperating with you was very informative for me. All my best wishes for you.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Thank you my friend. I did read quite a few of your comments and you are doing great. Hope to meet again.

          • Mike Abramov

            Ok – You do not know me, but I know your type. Your reply tells me that you are middle-class, extreme left-wing and you hide behind the ideologies of left-wing politics to disguise your unashamed hatred of the Jewish State. You have been brain-washed in to believing that Israel has mis-treated the Arabs.

            Let me tell you pal, that the Arabs are still lamenting over losing the war of 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973 where they invaded on Yom Kippur of all days – dirty warfare.

            As for Ilan Pappe, I have met him and spoken to him. In his own words, the Arabs do not want a Jewish state in the Middle East and as for Avner Cohen, I have no time for his opinion. Every country has their 5th column and Israel is no different.

            Finally, the Middle East is riddled with dictatorships and prisons full of journalists. The country you are slagging off is neither a dictatorship or a place where journalists are imprisoned…..and before you say it, yes the prisons have a lot of Arabs who have been arrested for murder,sabotage and other political crimes that every other country has.

            The great thing about Disqus is that the Judeophobes can spew out their hatred of the Jewish State in the safety of the cyber world. Coward.

        • Mike Abramov

          The Zionist (spurious) connection with Nazi Germany was at a time when the Jews were thinking of anything to prevent Jewish persecution. In the 1930s, no one thought that the Nazis would implement murder on an industrial scale. Secondly, your comment about the ‘despicable Zionists’ implies to me that you have failed to understand, comprehend or absorb Zionism. Zion = Return to Jerusalem…the Jewish city. I am a Zionist who wants to have a dialogue with pro-Palestinians in order to create an understanding of each other but all I get is racist remarks and an arrogance beyond comprehension from the PSC.

          As for Brenner, his book is HIS interpretation of Israel/Palestine which does not make it correct. Try reading Abba Eban ‘My Country’ wriiten by a great intellectual and not by Brenner who spent the entire 1960s on acid.

          • Huliapole

            The historians don’t know if there was allready a plan to destroy the jews back in 1933. In fact many clues are against this idea, because history proofs that Hitler first just want to get rid of the jews. The Ha’avara Agreement is a strong indication for this. Why engaging in this agreement if the first idea was the extermination? Why giving the jews the possibilty to leave Germany if the idea was to exterminate them ? Presumably Hitler came to the decision to murder them when the war allready was started. The Ha’avara agreement was functioning untill 1941 ! You try to sow confusion by your socalled “dialogue”, which isn’t. It is the same confusion your state is allready sowing since 1948 by shalom, shalom, shalom for which the correct translation is: murder, murder, extermination, extermination.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Yes, the Germans had the most perfect idea …If only it had been implemented.

            Germany attempted to send all European Jews to the Island of Madagascar.

            Text of the Madagascar Proposal to remove all European Jews

            Berlin, July 3, 1940

            The approaching victory gives Germany the possibility, and in my view also the duty, of solving the Jewish question in Europe. The desirable solution is: all Jews out of Europe.

            The task of the Foreign Ministry in this is:

            a) To include this demand in the Peace Treaty and to insist on it also by means of separate negotiations with the European countries not involved in the Peace Treaty;

            b) to secure the territory necessary for the settlement of the Jews in the Peace Treaty, and to determine principles for the cooperation of the enemy countries in this problem;

            c) to determine the position under international law of the new Jewish overseas settlement;

            d) as preparatory measures:

            1) clarification of the wishes and plans of the departments concerned of the Party, State and Research organizations in Germany, and the coordination of these plans with the wishes of the Reich Foreign Minister, including the following:

            2) preparation of a survey of the factual data available in various places (number of Jews in the various countries), use of their financial assets through an international bank;

            3) negotiations with our friend, Italy, on these matters.

            With regard to beginning the preparatory work, Section D III has already approached the Reich Foreign Minister via the Department Germany [interior affairs], and has been instructed by him to start on the preparatory work without delay. There have already been discussions with the Office of the Reichsfuehrer SS in the Ministry of Interior and several departments of the Party. These departments approve the following plan of Section D III:

            Section D III proposes as a solution of the Jewish question: In the Peace Treaty France must make the island of Madagascar available for the solution of the Jewish question, and to resettle and compensate the approximately 25,000 French citizens living there. The island will be transferred to Germany under a mandate. Diégo Suarez Bay and the port of Antsirane, which are [sea-] strategically important, will become German naval bases (if the Navy wishes, these naval bases could be extended also to the harbors – open road-steads – Tamatave, Andevorante, Mananjara, etc.). In addition to these naval bases, suitable areas of the country will be excluded from the Jewish territory (Judenterritorium) for the construction of air bases. That part of the island not required for military purposes will be placed under the administration of a German Police Governor, who will be under the administration of the Reichsfuehrer SS. Apart from this, the Jews will have their own administration in this territory: their own mayors, police, postal and railroad administration, etc. The Jews will be jointly liable for the value of the island. For this purpose their former European financial assets will be transferred for use to a European bank to be established for this purpose. Insofar as the assets are not sufficient to pay for the land which they will receive, and for the purchase of necessary commodities in Europe for the development of the island, the Jews will be able to receive bank credits from the same bank.

            As Madagascar will only be a Mandate, the Jews living there will not acquire German citizenship. On the other hand, the Jews deported to Madagascar will lose their citizenship of European countries from the date of deportation. Instead, they will become residents of the Mandate of Madagascar.

            This arrangement would prevent the possible establishment in Palestine by the Jews of a Vatican State of their own, and the opportunity for them to exploit for their own purposes the symbolic importance which Jerusalem has for the Christian and Mohammedan parts of the world. Moreover, the Jews will remain in German hands as a pledge for the future good behavior of the members of their race in America.

            Use can be made for propaganda purposes of the generosity shown by Germany in permitting cultural, economic, administrative and legal self-administration to the Jews; it can be emphasized at the same time that our German sense of responsibility towards the world forbids us to make the gift of a sovereign state to a race which has had no independent state for thousands of years: this would still require the test of history.

            signed Rademacher
            Berlin, July 3, 1940

            Source: JewishVirtualLibrary

          • Huliapole

            Helen4Yemen . I never saw this text. Interesting

          • Helen4Yemen

            Just imagine what would have happened? That was 1940 or 41?

          • Mike Abramov

            JEW HATER

          • Helen4Yemen

            You don’t think that the Ashkenazi was better off colonizing a land of people of color Madagascar instead another land of people of color, Palestine?

          • Huliapole

            Concerning Brenner I don’t agree with you. The FACTS he mentioned can’t be denied. Your criticism on him is just a biased opinion
            The Germans not onty committed a huge crime by starting WW2 and trying to exterminate the jews but not only them but committed a second huge crime, which is probabably worse than the first one by supporting zionism financially, politically, materialy. Their capitsl crime which could destroy all mankind is their supplying the zionists with the Delphin submarines. Martin van Creveld mentioned the so called Samson option. The zionists now have the option to destroy the world if their apartheidsstate comes in a situation that it’s very existence is threatend. The first Delphin submarines were modified by the zionsts themselves in Haifa. Afterwords the Howaltswerke Deutsche Werft ( HDW ) the construction company of the submarines modified the design on demand of the zionist navy by constructing rores which enables the crew to launch so called Pop Eye nucleair armed missiles. The Pop Eye is said to have a reach of over 8000 Km. With the number of Delphins the zionsts posesses right now it is possible to attack every corner of the earth. One shouldn’t doubt the intention of the zionists to commit this crime. Mankind will be destroyed by the zionists. If one doubts their intentions , take a look at Avner Cohen https://www.nonproliferation.o… who wrote a piece about the use of biological weapons by the jews back in 1948 to expel the Palestinians. The zionist mind is intrinsically criminal.

          • Mike Abramov

            For goodness sake what is the matter with you? Ken Livingstone reads a history book by Lenni Brenner and all of a sudden dozens of other historians are wrong. The use of chemical and biological weapons in the late 1940’s was NEVER implement against the Arabs and only used by a fringe group of Jews who wanted to poison the German nations. They managed to poison a hospital full of recovering patients only….many recovered.

            Ben-Gurion would never have endorsed such an act of mass murder….yes, hard to believe.

            Let me give you a question. To the English Sir Francis Drake was a patriot and hero. To the Spanish he was a pirate. Who was right and who was wrong?

          • Helen4Yemen

            ((Ben-Gurion would never have endorsed such an act of mass murder….yes, hard to believe.))

            Benny Morris:

            “That can’t be chance. It’s a pattern. Apparently, various officers who took part in the operation understood that the expulsion order they received permitted them to do these deeds (murder) in order to encourage the population to take to the roads. The fact is that no one was punished for these acts of murder. Ben-Gurion silenced
            the matter. He covered up for the officers who did the massacres.”

            -(Ari Shavit Interviews Benny Morris -Jan 08, 2004 -Haaretz interview –
            Survival of the fittest.)

          • Huliapole

            Read it , read it und shut up. It is in the internet for everybody to read. In 1992 you had the socalled Bijlmermeer desaster. A cargoplane of el Al came down above Amsterdam. Some buidings were destroyed and a lot of people died. Afterword a lot of people got strange problems with their health. At the place of the impact, one hour after the accident, unknown people were seen dressed in white NBC suits. Their identity was never unveiled. Press in the Netherlands was speculating about israel secret agents who were looking for incriminating cargo. And yes, there was. It turned out that on board of the plane were cans filled with 190 liters of DMMP,,( Dimethylmethylfosfonate) a precursor for Sarin adressed to the IIBR( Israeli Institute of Biological Reseach) in Nes Ziona not far from Tel Aviv. On Wikipedia Dutch: De El-Al Boeing die bij de Bijlmerramp neerstortte, had minstens 10 plastic vaatjes met in totaal ongeveer 190 liter dimethylmethylfosfonaat aan boord. De stof was in New York aan boord van de El Al-Boeing 747 gebracht en was bestemd voor het Israel Institute for Biological Research in Ness Ziona. Dit is de voornaamste staatsinstelling van Israël voor onderzoek naar de werking van gifgassen. Volgens deskundigen was 190 liter voor een onderzoeksinstituut een ongewoon grote bestelling.
            The last sentence says: According to specialists the 190 liters was an unusually large order for a research institute. So who is lying here?

          • Mike Abramov

            OK – what we have on this chat site is ‘cut and paste’ responses from spurious sources such as wikipedia. and in this instance the El Al crash with an ‘alleged’ cargo of poison means that Israel is guilty without trial. Just the sort of propaganda that Hitler would have been proud of.

            Are you a Nazi?

          • Huliapole

            Tou are obvous a despicable zionist who has no answers for his ugly ideology but slander and namecalling. I stop trying top establish a dialogue with you. There is just one thing. As T Herzl wrote his der Judenstaat in 1897 the question is if Nazism comes from Zionism or the other way around

          • Mike Abramov

            Please answer my question on Sir Francis Drake. If you do not know who he is……….. try Wikipedia.

          • Helen4Yemen

            (Zionism. Zion = Return to Jerusalem…the Jewish city)
            1- How does one who has never been there ‘return’?
            2- Jewish -Ashkenazi city? Impossible!

          • Mike Abramov

            No. You are impossible.

          • Helen4Yemen

            How does one who has never been there ‘return’?
            Can the Nigerian ‘return’ to Norway?
            Can the Eskimo ‘return’ to Zimbabwe?
            How then does the Ashkenazi ‘return’ to Palestine?

          • Helen4Yemen

            ( I am a Zionist who wants to have a dialogue with pro-Palestinians)

            My answer is like that of Benny Morris:

            1- Benny Morris: “There is not going to be peace in the present generation. There will not be a solution. We are doomed to live by the sword. I’m already fairly old, but for my children that is especially bleak. I don’t know if they will want to go on living in a place where there is no hope. Even if Israel is not destroyed, we won’t see a good, normal life here in the decades ahead.”

            2- Benny Morris: “Destruction could be the end of this process. It could be the end of the Zionist experiment. And that’s what really depresses and scares me.”

            3- Benny Morris: “The whole Zionist project is apocalyptic. It exists within hostile surroundings and in a certain sense its existence is unreasonable. It wasn’t reasonable for it to succeed in 1881 and it wasn’t reasonable for it to succeed in 1948 and it’s not reasonable that it will succeed now. Nevertheless, it has come this far. In a certain way it is miraculous. I live the events of 1948, and 1948 projects itself on what could happen here. Yes, I think of Armageddon. It’s possible. Within the next 20 years there could be an atomic war here.”

      • Seumas Mactalla

        Israel is not a Jewish state, ts a racist state created by terrorists and financed by imperialists which stole and still steals land from Semites and elected a Nazi collaborator and terrorist as prime minister in the nineteen-eighties. Furthermore, it is correct as stated elsewhere on this thread that the Zionists in part collaborated with the Nazis and cared less for the Jews in Europe under threat pf extermination from the Nazis than they did for stealing and from Palestinians.

        • neluroman

          Who says so, you!!!!

          • ray rayz

            you are very naive or uneducated in historical fact. Best you do some real research so you wont look look a fool

      • Theo Anonis

        Suppression and oppression of others cannot be justified by your own as “payback”. Opposition to the occupation of the West Bank by Israeli forces doesn’t mean that those in opposition are Nazi’s. If you have a problem with the Nazi’s, take it up with them. Leave the supporters of Palestinian rights out of your twisted logic.

      • Helen4Yemen

        {The Nazis continued then with: “Geh nach Palästina, du Jud”: Go to Palestine, you Jew. }

        Here is Ralph Schoenman:

        “Mr. Benjamin Netanyahu (real name: Mileikowsky) is descendant from people who have no relation to Palestine, historic or other, because Ashkenazim or European Jews such as Mr. Netanyahu or ourselves for that matter are in fact descendants of the Khazars, an 8th and 9th century empire that converted to Judaism at that time from which European Jews are descended.

        • neluroman

          No, no! Only you, the Musulmans, and a few anti-Semites hold up this lie. The true historians say, yes, a few khazars converted to Judaism but whose Jews you call Askhenazi trace their descendant both from Europe as from Asia. (Middle East).

          • Helen4Yemen

            Explain to me why only the Ashkenazi have 40 genetic diseases with the names of
            Ashkenazi Genetic Diseases that the Arab Jews do not have?

          • neluroman

            Sincerely, I don’t know. You can’t pretend me to know everything, can you? But most probably because Ashkenazi Jews have always been an exclusivist group where first cousin marriages were more frequent than in the case of Sephardi or Mizrahi Jews. Maybe, maybe, I am not a genetical expert.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Where did the Khazars go? Why are the no Khazars alive today?
            They are indeed alive, but now they go ‘Ashkenazi Jews’ today.

          • Helen4Yemen

            {descendant both from Europe as from Asia.}

            They do not seem to have any trace of ‘Asia’! They are vividly European,
            indistinguishable from the rest of the Europeans! Why?

          • ray rayz

            under true Torah Judaism a person cannot “convert” to Judaism however the hate preaching child molesting anti Semitic anti Judaic Talmud says it’s ok..

          • neluroman

            Seriously!! Where did you read this? Can you give the quotes to support your assertions?

          • ray rayz

            In the Talmud Maimonides’ Code of Jewish Law (around the year 1200) discusses it, and there is a section on it in Shulchan Aruch, the main code of Jewish Law that was compiled in the 1500s.

      • Helen4Yemen

        {“Jews out of Palestine!”}

        Only foreign predatory Jews out of Palestine. Nobody is disputing the right of the indigenous Jews of Palestine the right to their land.

  • chasdurham

    LET ME BE THE FIRST TO COMMIT THIS FALSE CRIME, VIVA PALESTINA, MAKE ISRAEL A GIANT PARKING LOT..

    • Mike Abramov

      Well as a Zionist in a thwarted way I agree with you. Let’s assume for one moment that the Jews leave Israel. Shut down the infra-structure, the technology, the green parks of Tel-Aviv, the de-salination plants (that the Arabs refused to participate in) and let the Arabs move back to what the land was over 100 years ago. Then the cry would be – ‘ The Jews left us a wilderness’ of nothing but a big car park’ The Jews are blamed for everything, as usual.

      • Helen4Yemen

        Nope! The entire Arabic and Islamic world can raise a trillion dollars in a matter of hours as compensation if the predatory Jews now leeching off the land of the Arabs would be willing to go back to their homelands and vacate from stolen Arab property.

        • Eduardo Pinha

          And transform it in a paradise, just like Syria, Yemen (for which you coundn´t care less), Egypt or maybe the vibrant democracy of Saudi Arabia. The truth is Israeli Arabs preferer to live in Israel.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Why is it the business of foreign Ashkenazis how the Arabs choose to live?
            Shouldn’t the Ashkenazi pay more attention to their own European affairs?

        • Mike Abramov

          Really? I put it to you that the rest of the Arab world cares nothing for the Palestinians.

          • Helen4Yemen

            I am part of the Arab world and I care 100% about the Palestinians.

            Palestine was invaded by foreign Jewry and the Islamic world has an obligation to send these foreign leeches back to their homelands as they did to the Crusaders.

          • Mike Abramov

            Ah! Now I know. You are a jihadist…if the Arabs cared about the Palestinians, why did Jordan kick them out in the 1970’s and why has Egypt closed the Rafah crossing on many occasions?

          • Helen4Yemen

            What has white-Euro-Jews got to do with it?
            Do you hear he Eskimos or the Japanese meddling in Arab affairs?
            Why does the Ashkenazi – who is equally foreign?

          • Helen4Yemen

            __ Jabotinsky: “There can be no voluntary agreement between ourselves and the Palestine Arabs. Not now, nor in the prospective future. … it is utterly impossible to obtain the voluntary consent of the Palestine Arabs for converting “Palestine” from an Arab country into a country with a Jewish majority.”
            (1923)

          • Huliapole

            Go to Germany. Occupy Bavaria. The Germans destroyed the jews not the Palestinians.

          • Mike Abramov

            Ah! A Nazi sympathiser. To this day, I am baffled why the world has a problem with Jews. However, one of the reasons might be that as the most gifted, educated, cultured and creative people in the world, anti-Semitism is pure jealousy.

          • Helen4Yemen

            {anti-Semitism is pure jealousy.}

            Do you think that Herzl was explaining Jew-hatred due to Jewish-conspiracy?

            Theodore Herzl :

            __ “The Jewish question persists wherever Jews live in appreciable numbers. Wherever it does not exist, it is brought in together with Jewish immigrants.

            __ “You know that in some lands the Jewish problem has come to mean calamity for the government. If it sides with the Jews, it is confronted by the ire of the masses; if it sides against the Jews, it may call disagreeable economic consequences down upon its head because of the peculiar influence of the Jews upon the business affairs of the world. Examples of the latter may be met with in Russia.”.

            — Theodor Herzl’s Opening Address to the First Zionist Congress –(August 1897) “

      • Huliapole

        you have something in common with your fellow religionists. They all love to wallow in self-pity grotesquely

        • Mike Abramov

          You don’t know Jews very well do you. If Jews wallowed in self-pity they would have been destroyed a 1,000 years ago like the Greeks and Romans. It’s the Arabs that wallow is self-pity. Instead of embracing the state of Israel in 1948, they called is a disaster (Naqba) and then proceeded to fight 5 pointless wars in the mis-guided belief that things would be back to normal if they won. That is self-pity.

    • Mike Abramov

      Well as a Zionist in a thwarted way I agree with you. Let’s assume for one moment that the Jews leave Israel. Shut down the infra-structure, the technology, the green parks of Tel-Aviv, the de-salination plants (that the Arabs refused to participate in) and let the Arabs move back to what the land was over 100 years ago. Then the cry would be – ‘ The Jews left us a wilderness’ of nothing but a big car park’ The Jews are blamed for everything, as usual.

  • James Mendelsohn

    ‘“Viva Palestina” is an enduring chant along with “Long Live Palestine” and “Long Live Gaza”’
    You forgot “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”. What would happen to six million Israeli Jews in such a scenario?

    • sylence

      What is happening to 6 million palestinians now, while israel has this kind of policy?

      • James Mendelsohn

        Not sure what you are referring to – the article is primarily about something happening in Scotland, not about Israeli policies.

        • Pedro Lobo Romero

          hasbara, hasbara shameful lies all the way

          • James Mendelsohn

            Wow what an insightful comment. You fit in very well at MEMO.

    • Helen4Yemen

      Therefore, according to you, stealers keepers?

    • Helen4Yemen

      Why should the Arabs be burdened with Germany’s Jews, Russia’s Jews, America’s Jews and so on? Got an answer?

  • Fasdunkle

    I doubt thay Ridley is giving us the full story here, she is known to be economical with the truth and MEMO is hardly an objective outlet

  • mothman777

    Of course, if you help any other people but the chosenites, ultimately they will most certainly accuse you of doing them the gravest of harm, as to strengthen any people other than them is secretly considered by the chosenites to be strengthening only an enemy of the chosenites, as the Zohar states, that when the messiah comes, all Gentiles on the entire planet will simply be killed, and their souls sent to hell, after a period of physical enslavement of course, which much the world is now going through in the form of Capitalism with it’s usury, fractional reserve banking and all, and Communism.

    That is why the world is being trashed right now, through perpetual wars (Gutle Schnaper; wife of Mayer Amschel Rothschild; “If my sons did not want wars, there would be none”), and all good things kept from us, the nuclear and fossil fuel free technology of Nikola Tesla, the medical technology of Raymond Royal Rife that could cure every single case of cancer and every single case of pathogenic disease, which would, if re-released, free us all entirely from the harmful use of chemo’therapy’, radio’therapy’, antibiotics and vaccinations. The world is in the grip of an extremely sinister force intent on making this planet unfit to live in. Look at GMO technology, that will damage all species through gene spreading, harming the genomes of all other species on the planet, it is a suicide techology, not a benevolent technology. Look at the Russian study on rats using the same GMO strain of maize that the American government now feeds it’s people. It is not population control, it is population destruction.

    In the chosenite belief system, this will not matter, as after the ritual destruction of life on this planet is completed, they themselves alone will be given a new planet, and new bodies in which to live on that planet. If that sounds weird, think of the Christian belief and their new heaven and earth to come.

    The chosenites will not allow even the slightest thing to get in the way of this mindless satanic destruction program, hence this insanely perverse attempt by them to enable legislation even against support for the Palestinian community. You can see photographs of Israelis online carrying gigantic pacards in the streets of Israel that state “KILL THEM ALL”. Ultimately, we will all be next, as the Jewish scriptures, available for confirmation even in the form of the Old Testament, say that whenever that ‘Lord’ gives them a city, they are to kill everyone in the city, leaving no living thing alive that breathes, even extending this insane edict against the animals, plants and trees of the peoples that they conquer.

    Their ‘Lord’ even says that he will set ‘kingdom against kingdom’, and even within those kingdoms, by malevolent psychic influence, their ‘Lord’ will set even brother against brother, so that they will kill each other, Isaiah 19:2, pure unadulterated evil, that today, demands that no one recognize it or call it what it is, but rather, protects it, enabling it’s world-ending protocol to flourish and run to completion. Very sinister indeed.

    Think of the nuclear devastation of Iraq, carpet-bombed and grid-bombed according to acclaimed Australian journalist John Pilger, with Depleted Uranium (still very radioactive, not properly decommissioned), even in unpopulated mountainous and desert areas, to create a nuclear wasteland, a desert devoid of life, for all time to come in this world.

    Even in the 1940’s, DU was known to be a WMD that would ultimately kill all forms of life in any area in which it was deployed, given sufficient time, as it destroys the integrity of any genome eventually, for evidence see the deformed babies now born in Iraq, and don’t just read Western reports, speak to Iraqi people themselves and see just how vastly widespread this terrible genetic damage has spread, the Iraqis are simply being exterminated, to the last man, woman and child, have no doubt of that, it is a Biblical slaughter, but of course, by law, we are compelled only to remember the fictional death of the ‘6 million’ Jews, or face terrible social, legal and financial consequences at the very least.

    Even the Monsanto bioweapon GMO seeds are forcibly sold to Iraqi farmers now for many of their crops, so that to buy or sell their own traditional seeds is banned by law, this being literally enforced by American soldiers, it is scarcely believable, but it is true, and that is designed to hasten the extermination process, simply take a good look at those Russian rats tested with American Monsanto GMO Maize for the evidence.

  • Isaac

    The Zionists try to silence any one who say something about the illegal occupation and the crimes against humanity the Israelis are doing in Palestine. Their crimes have been kept in secret and that is how they have gotten away with so much insolence. Thank God more people are getting aware of this enormous evil.

    • Helen4Yemen

      The Internet is the nightmare of Zios!

  • Helen4Yemen

    What is the meaning of ‘The Jewish Question’? Here is Herzl:

    Theodore Herzl:

    “You know that in some lands the Jewish problem has come to mean calamity for the government. If it sides with the Jews, it is confronted by the ire of the masses; if it sides against the Jews, it may call disagreeable economic consequences down upon its head because of the peculiar influence of the Jews upon the business affairs of the world. Examples of the latter may be met with in Russia.”.

    — Theodor Herzl’s Opening Address to the First Zionist Congress –(August 1897)

  • Bishadi

    Go Go BDS. The crime is allowing israel to oppress millions over ‘zionism’.

  • tom_billesley

    There follows a collective panegyric to the Khazar Myth

  • Mike Abramov

    Huliapole – Right you are? You are just as ignorant of history as Helen.