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Attacking Al-Azhar is a gateway to attacking Islam

Image of Al-Azhar University in Cairo, Egypt [Upyernoz/Flickr]
Image of Al-Azhar University in Cairo, Egypt [Upyernoz/Flickr]

They used Al-Azhar as a gateway to attack Islam; a gateway through which they could sneak up on the constants of religion and tamper with them. For over a month, specifically after the bombing of the two churches in Alexandria and Tanta, the pro-coup media has waged a fierce attack on Al-Azhar and its educational curriculums. They claimed that they are the source of extremism and a terrorist cell breeding terrorists, and that they must change their curriculums. They have said that Al-Azhar should omit any verses on jihad and their interpretation, as well as not teach the stories of the Prophet’s companions and historical leaders leading Islamic conquests. They believe that instead they should teach the Western scientists who invented electricity, penicillin, etc. Some have even gone on television to demand that Al-Azhar be shut down for 15 years in order to save the current generation!

This fierce attack on Al-Azhar coincides with the decision to remove the religious subject from schools next year and replace it with a class on morals, a move welcomed by secularists and satellite television channels. Since last year, a number of figures were removed from schoolbooks, such as Uqba ibn Nafi, Tariq ibn Ziyad and Salah Al-Din Al-Ayoubi, under the pretext that these figures incited violence. Can you believe it? This is happening at a time when the Pope of the Vatican was greeted with the welcome of a hero. The church bells were rung for him and hymns were played on every Egyptian satellite channel. Crosses were erected on all of Egypt’s streets and squares. All of this confirms that the aim is to change Egypt’s Islamic identity, and this is exactly what Abdel Fattah Al-Sisi has been trying to do since he staged his coup against the elected President, Dr Mohamed Morsi, and seized control of Egypt.

Read: Egypt rejects calls to oust Al-Azhar’s Grand Sheikh

Since he announced his candidacy, he said in a television interview that he is responsible for religion in Egypt and since then, he has been dealing blows to Islam by means of his attacks on Al-Azhar. In his first speech on the day of the Prophet’s birth, he said: “There is no way that 1.6 billion can kill seven billion people so they could live.” This is a form of public incitement against Muslims before the entire world.

During the celebrations marking this day this year he said: “You are tiring me, Grand Imam.” Why? Because during a previous speech he had called for restricting divorce by having it done before a judge and not accepting only verbal divorce. This is a blatant violation of the religion, and the Supreme Council of Muslim scholars, headed by Sheikh Al-Azhar. So Al-Sisi took it upon himself and instructed all his media mouthpieces to attack the Imam, even reaching the point of saying: “Why are you still in office. Have some shame and step down.”

Egyptian President Abdulfettah el-Sisi arrives for a meeting with members of the U. House Foreign Affairs Committee in Washington, US on April 4, 2017. ( Samuel Corum - Anadolu Agency )

Egyptian President Abdul Fattah al-Sisi in Washington, US on April 4, 2017 [Samuel Corum / Anadolu Agency]

They also instructed some MPs to propose a project to restructure Al-Azhar that included the appointment of the Al-Azhar sheikh, the duration of his term, accountability, and many other matters that aim to suffocate Al-Azhar’s sheikh and to replace him with a custom sheikh tailored to Al-Sisi’s liking who does whatever is asked of him, despite the fact that the man cooperated with them on political matters. He stood with the coup from day one and he was in the famous picture that included Pope Tawadrous, along with the leader of the coup, El-Baradei, and other figures. He also did not condemn the massacres committed in the Rabaa Al-Adawiya and Al-Nahda Squares. None of this was enough for Al-Sisi, who toppled all his partners in the coup.

Read: Al-Azhar condemns media’s ‘unjust’ attack

Egyptians now fear for their religion and have started to feel that this campaign directed against Al-Azhar and its sheikh is nothing more than an attack on Islam itself. This is especially true after the Ministry of Awqaf decided to open mosques only during prayer times and close them immediately after prayer. Meanwhile, churches are open 24 hours a day. They also decided that the Friday sermons would be unified for all mosques. It is very strange that the topics of the sermons have been set for the rest of the year and presented to Al-Sisi and the rest of the year is actually what is left of Al-Sisi’s first term.

I reiterate, Egyptians are feeling protective towards Al-Azhar, as it the oldest university in the world and the beacon that shed its light on the entire world. Therefore, they are standing against this aggressive attack that targets Islam itself and uses Al-Azhar as a curtain behind which to execute its malicious plans. Despite our disagreement with Dr Ahmed Al-Tayeb, the Sheikh of Al-Azhar, over his support for the coup and his failure to condemn the Rabaa and Al-Nahda massacres, we still defend his position and status as sheikh of Al-Azhar, for the sake of the prestige of Al-Azhar and not him as an individual.

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  • Zahid

    If Muslims of Egypt has even an atom of faith in their heart, they should with all their might revolt against any reformation of ISLAM and ban against classical Islamic interpretation.

    • neluroman

      What do you mean by ” against any reformation of Islam”. Do you think that Islam doesn’t need any reformation? Do you think that something as old as 1400 years doesn’t need any reformation? Have you ever heard of the principle of “abrogation”, so much invoked in the Quran? That means that if two verses in the Quran contradicts one other, one of them prevails over the other. Yes, but which one. It is crystal clear that an idea of what is good and what is wrong was predominant 1400 years ago and something quite different is predominant now. In other words, one is the classical interpretation of the Verse of the Sword (Quran 9:5) and quite different is its modern interpretation. It is worth to mention here that all the Islamic terrorists clinch to the classic interpretation of this verse. And you want to remain stuck in this classical interpretation. Are you normal? 66.7% + 33,3% + 12.5% = 112.5%. This is a correct mathematic equation. Yes, but in the Quran ( Shura 4) classical interpretation says it is not correct. There, the result is 100. How can it be? Only God (Allah) knows. Don’t you think that Shura 4 would need some reformation? Think about!

      • Zahid

        There is a difference between abrogation and reformation. The former is by GOD and the latter is by Human.The people who talk about reformation are either Western Culture Influenced Muslim or feminist who want their needs to be catered. The wider Muslim community doesn’t call for any.
        Secondly, be it Al Azhar or Madina University or any other University, CLASSICAL Interpretation are taught along with Contemporary and I saw no interpretation being poles apart than the other.
        As for your 112.5%, it is your misunderstanding of the verses.

        • Fasdunkle

          Fine, keep it ossified. Just stop screaming when people criticise it

        • peepsqueek

          God/Allah is just a concept, not a physical reality. Every culture has a different idea about this concept.

          With the exception of Israel, all Middle East Countries are signatories to the Cairo Declaration of Human Rights:
          Article 19: “There shall be NO crime or punishment EXCEPT as provided for in the Sharia.”

          Article 24 : “All the rights and freedoms stipulated in this Declaration are subject to the Islamic Sharia.”

          Article 25: “The Islamic Sharia is the ONLY source of reference for the explanation or clarification of ANY of the articles of this Declaration.”

          By your definition of Western culture, Islamic Sharia does not belong in the Western world, and should get out??
          Jews and Christians lived in Mecca before the invention of Islam.

          • Helen4Yemen

            The Ashkenazi who now make up 90% of world Jewry is totally European … never set foot on that land until 1882 when he arrived as a foreign predatory LEECH!

        • neluroman

          Zahid, the maker of the universe cannot abrogate His own words. This is the exclusivist domain of humans. If thar were the case, the entire unbiverse would be in a mess today. What about the Shura 4, there is no room for misunderstanding over there, the Allah’s words are clear but His mathematic is terrible, periode. The universe and the Shura 4 cannot have the same author- the only logical conclusion.

          • Zahid

            Abrogation is a fact and God did abrogate laws to cater to each tribe/ group/ nation of peoples according to the state of belief they were in, so that they may be guided. One common example is the prohibition of alcohol in Islam. Gradually alcohol was prohibited, rather than one command prohibiting it completely – in this way, the people developed the habit of consuming less alcohol and thus stopping consumption of it became drastically easier for them.By this, we can understand that it isn’t that God kept changing His “mind” over the laws, rather He sent different laws to deal with the beliefs, attitudes, actions (habits) and culture (norms and values) of each tribe, nation of peoples to make things easy. However, with the revelation of the Qur’an, God has sent a law for all of mankind.

            As for Surah 4 and the Maths you don’t understand. Let me explain you with an example.

            If you read the Qur’an in Arabic you will see that at the beginning of Surah 4 verse 11 Allah uses the plural word in Arabic ‘awlaad’ for “…your children’s (inheritance)…” but then Allah uses the singular word in ‘walad’ for “…if the deceased left a child…” Therefore, the above translation, ‘if the deceased left children’, is incorrect as the Qur’an uses the word walad and not awlaad, and walad is the Arabic word for a child, or one child, where as awlaad is the word for more than one child or children.

            Now let us look at Surah 4 verse 11 a little closer. We are told that two or more daughters (if and only if the man dies with no sons) will receive 2/3’s of the man’s inheritance. We are also told that the parents will receive a sixth (1/6) of the man’s inheritance if the deceased left a child (not children) (to each, thus we take 1/6 + 1/6 = 2/6 or 1/3). In the example below there are more than one child. Therefore, the Quran does not fix here the share of the parents as 1/3 in this particular instance. The share of the wife will be 1/8 as per verse Surah 4 verse 12.

            Now let us test this out. Let’s use a scenario. Suppose, A man dies and leaves behind three daughters, his parents, and a wife. Because we are not told what his parents will get if he has children,we must then substitute a variable in place of his parents, and we get the following simple equation: 2/3 (for daughters from verse 4:11) + 1/8 (for wife from verse 4:12) + X (for parents) = 1 (using 1 as 100% the man’s wealth) Let’s solve this.
            2/3 + 1/8 = 19/24
            19/24 + X = 1
            X = 1 – 19/24

            X = 5/24
            And this works as 2/3 + 1/8 + 5/24 is indeed equal to 1.

            I hope that you now understood how to distribute wealth in the given scenario.

          • Zahid

            Abrogation is a fact and God did abrogate laws to cater to each tribe/ group/ nation of peoples according to the state of belief they were in, so that they may be guided. One common example is the prohibition of alcohol in Islam. Gradually alcohol was prohibited, rather than one command prohibiting it completely – in this way, the people developed the habit of consuming less alcohol and thus stopping consumption of it became drastically easier for them.By this, we can understand that it isn’t that God kept changing His “mind” over the laws, rather He sent different laws to deal with the beliefs, attitudes, actions (habits) and culture (norms and values) of each tribe, nation of peoples to make things easy. However, with the revelation of the Qur’an, God has sent a law for all of mankind.

            As for Surah 4 and the Maths you don’t understand. Let me explain you with an example.

            If you read the Qur’an in Arabic you will see that at the beginning of Surah 4 verse 11 Allah uses the plural word in Arabic ‘awlaad’ for “…your children’s (inheritance)…” but then Allah uses the singular word in ‘walad’ for “…if the deceased left a child…” Qur’an uses the word Arabic word walad is the for a child, or one child, where as awlaad is the word for more than one child or children.

            Now let us look at Surah 4 verse 11 a little closer. We are told that two or more daughters (if and only if the man dies with no sons) will receive 2/3’s of the man’s inheritance. We are also told that the parents will receive a sixth (1/6) of the man’s inheritance if the deceased left a child (not children) (to each, thus we take 1/6 + 1/6 = 2/6 or 1/3). The share of the wife will be 1/8 as per verse Surah 4 verse 12.

            Now let us test this out. Let’s use a scenario. Suppose, A man dies and leaves behind three daughters, his parents, and a wife.

            In the example given above there are more than one child. Therefore, the Quran does not fix here the share of the parents as 1/3 in this particular instance.Because we are not told what his parents will get if he has children,we must then substitute a variable in place of his parents, and we get the following simple equation: 2/3 (for daughters from verse 4:11) + 1/8 (for wife from verse 4:12) + X (for parents) = 1 (using 1 as 100% the man’s wealth) Let’s solve this.
            2/3 + 1/8 = 19/24
            19/24 + X = 1
            X = 1 – 19/24

            X = 5/24
            And this works as 2/3 + 1/8 + 5/24 is indeed equal to 1.

            I hope that you now understood how to distribute wealth in the given scenario.

          • neluroman

            Ha, ha,ha! Amusing, but beyond this….. there is nothing of substance. I am sorry, but your explanation for the bad mathematic in Shura 4 is flawed. That is because you put in part of input of the equitation a variable parameter, although the intention of the author(Allah) was to use an invariable parameter. And even if you were right, and the Arabian language is that confuse, who is to be blamed for this? Why the maker of the universe would have chosen for His sealed book a language that, at the moment of revelation, had yet one hundred years to be polished until to become what it is today? Why not the revelation was made in languages that at that time were perfectly definitized and without the ambiguity characterizing the Arabian language of those times? You see, many times ambiguity makes difference between life and death, with many people understanding what was not intended to be understood and pauing with their life because of it.. If the universe and the Quran have the same author, how is it that the universe is that precise – you no need to add anything from you to make it understandable- and the Quran is that ambiguous that it requires additional information to sound somehow logical(if.)? Really!! How is it? What about abrogations, here you are wrong again. Abrogation is, according to the Quran, “The principle of abrogation — al-naskh wa al-mansukh (the abrogating and
            the abrogated) — directs that verses revealed later in Muhammad’s
            career abrogate ( cancel, replace) earlier ones if these contradict them”. Thus, the passages revealed later in
            Muhammad’s career in Medina, overrule the passages revealed earlier in
            Mecca. In Mecca the prophet was a peaceful preacher revealing something like, “To you be your religion, and to me my religion”, while in Medina the prophet became a warrior preacher (Allah changed His mind), revealing something much different, the Verse of Sword, for example(Q9:5). In conclusion, my friend, all what you claimed here is 1001 Nights Fairy Tales, and I am not the one to believe in such a rhetoric, believe me.

          • Zahid

            You can laugh, but you haven’t refuted my argument. There is no if and but here. I am cent per cent correct because I understand Arabic language and it is you who don’t. So the problem lies with you, not me. We divide our inheritance and there was never been any problem with shares.

            Secondly, you said the previous verses are abrogated by later verses. Sorry, Sir this is your own sad interpretation. Bring me any authentic hadith from the Prophet that says all peaceful verses are abrogated by war verses or any Verse from the quran that says similar.

          • neluroman

            Yes, I don’t know Arabic language. What a fool I was to learn English and not Arabic! But Evrica!!! English language is globally known, whereas Arabic language it is not, so, maybe, maybe I was not such a fool. My friend, if you use the exclusivist Arabic language as a shield against any misinterpretation of Islam coming from those who don’t know Arabic language, then Islam’s reclaimed universalism is just empty religious propaganda. Is that what you want to say?
            Secondly, yes,I was right.The earlier verses abrogate the later verses. Here is the demonstration.
            Q.2:106. Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We {Allah} abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is able to do all things.” Keep in mind this! Allah abrogates verses. Which verses!!! That that cannot be reconciled with one another. As for example: Q 50:45,(revealed early in Mecca) ” We know of best what they say; and you (O Muhammad) are not a
            tyrant over them (to force them to Belief). But warn by the Qur’an, him
            who fears My Threa.” These verses cannot be reconciled with Q8:39.” And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and
            polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion
            (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world].” Therefore, here is where the principle of abrogation was thought to work.- “a better one abrogates the other – as stated in Q.2:106. It doesn’t ask for rocket science to realize that in a case of sheer contradiction, as it is the case here, the later revelation suppress the earlier revelation – this is elementary logic. But this is not a singular case. Many, many peaceful verses revealed earlier in Mecca are contradicted( abrogated) by later, much more violent, revelations in Medina. Therefore my friend, ” quod erat demonstrandum”- how would say our friend Leonardo Davinci.

      • peepsqueek

        Your point is well taken, from the biblical account of the creation going forward. The ancient texts were written when the earth was still flat, the universe (the heavens) revolved around the earth, Adam and Even, the first two humans were created from a lump of dirt, and after they ate of the forbidden fruit, which God pointed out to them in the “garden of Eden”, felt shame of their hairy undercarriage and had to put on some clothes to cover their nakedness, instead of protecting themselves from the cold or from too much ultraviolet rays. Disease was caused by impure thoughts and punishments from God.

        • Helen4Yemen

          THE ASHKENAZI IS A 9TH CENTURY CONVERT

          DNA has confirmed that the Ashkenazi have no trace of Middle East ancestry, zero, zilch! Here are 10 samples that look almost identical because the Ashkenazi are a closely knit group that had been breeding among its own members for centuries.

          Name………………………. European……. Middle Eastern
          1) Alex Feinberg…………… 99.8% …………… 0%
          2) Dershowitz DNA………. 99.9% …………….0%
          3) Rabbi Hammerman…,,, 99.9% …………… 0%
          4) Tony Kushner…………… 99.9% …………….0%
          5) Joseph Cohen………….. 99.8% …………… 0%
          6) Bill Maher…………………..99.9% ……………..0%
          7) Neil Gaiman……………… 99.9% …………… .0%
          8) Jill Sobule………….. …….99.9% ……………..0%
          9) Alisa R Doctoroff…….. ..98.0% …………….. 0%
          10) A.J. Jacobs………………99.9% ……………. 0%

          Source:

          https://disqus*com/home/channel/semite/discussion/channel-semite/stunning_ashkenazi_dna/

        • Helen4Yemen

          What was wrong with Abraham’s own homeland of UR-IRAQ that he was told travel 800 miles to Canaan and to FORCE OUT and murder the natives of that land? Therefore, can we not say that they were chosen to be predatory bandits,land thieves and murders?

    • peepsqueek

      Coptic News: 

      “Since Christianity came to Egypt in 57 A.D., we, the Christians of Egypt, have not had conflict with the Jewish people. Copts have been a marginal population held in captivity for sixteen centuries. We constitute the largest non-Arab, non-Moslem minority in the Middle East. The Church of Alexandria, is one of the oldest organizations in the Middle East. Despite this distinguished history, it is a church that has been under siege since the Islamic invasion.”

      • Helen4Yemen

        Google these headline stroies

        1 Vatican official says Israel fostering intolerance of Christianity
        2 The growing harassment of Christian clergy by religious Jews
        3 Brazilian ‘Fiddler’ director: Orthodox Jews spit on Christians
        4 Christians’ life in Israel not so wonderful
        5 Israel’s not-so-stellar record on treatment of Christians
        6 Why Angry Christians in Israel Are Crying Discrimination
        7 Debunking Israel’s imagined ‘Christian awakening’
        8 Christian Schools Accuse Israel of Discrimination as Students Strike
        9 The myth of Israel’s favorable treatment of Palestinian Christians
        10 Israel Oppressed Arab Christians For Decades Before ISIS Even Existed
        11 Burning of Christian churches in Israel justified, far-Right Jewish leader says
        12 Radical Jewish group’s head advocates burning churches
        13 Jewish Attacks Rattle Christians in Holy Land
        14 Jews Extremists Set Fire To Historic Church In Israel
        15 Jewish supremacist: Burning churches legitimate under Jewish law
        16 Israelis burn the church where Jesus multiplied loaves and fishes
        17 Catholic bishop condemns arson attack on Israel church by ‘Jewish zealots’
        18 This Rabbi Called For The Burning Of Christian Churches
        19 Christians in Jerusalem Want Jews to Stop Spitting on Them
        20 HOLY SPIT: WHY DO ULTRA-ORTHODOX JEWS SPIT AT CHRISTIANS?
        21 Being spat at remains part of life for Christians in Jerusalem
        22 Mouths filled with hatred
        23 Why do Jews spit on Christians in the streets of Israel?
        24 Brazilian ‘Fiddler’ director: Orthodox Jews spit on Christians
        25 Christians In Jerusalem Want Jews To Stop Spitting On Them
        26 Christians in Jerusalem Want Jews to Stop Spitting on Them
        27 HOLY SPIT: WHY DO ULTRA-ORTHODOX JEWS SPIT AT CHRISTIANS?
        28 Being spat at remains part of life for Christians in Jerusalem
        29 Mouths filled with hatred
        30 Jewish residents vandalizing churches and spitting on Christian clergy
        31 Christians In Jerusalem Want Jews To Stop Spitting On Them
        32 Israeli police make arrests in ‘Loaves and Fishes’ church arson
        33 “Senior Catholic Cleric: ‘If Jews Want Respect, They Must Respect Respect Others’

        34 Jewish residents vandalizing churches and spitting on Christian clergy
        35 The growing harassment of Christian clergy by religious Jews
        36 Christians’ life in Israel not so wonderful
        37 Discrimination & Hate Crimes Against Christian Palestinians in the Holy Land
        38 “Senior Catholic Cleric: ‘If Jews Want Respect, They Must Respect Respect Others’

        39 Why do Jews spit on Christians in the streets of Israel?
        40 Christians Discriminated Against by Israel
        41 How Israel Targets Its Palestinian Christian Citizens
        42 Israel passes legislation to reclassify its Christian citizens as ‘non-Arab’
        43 Vatican calls on A-G to indict extremist Jewish leader following endorsement of burning churches
        44 New Jewish Terror Suspects Arrested in Israeli Church Burning

  • Arthur Nichols

    So the government would like a university primarily to impart knowledge and education rather than to reinforce the indoctrination of it’s students into Islam. And this so-called journalist opposes that? Face it, this is propaganda. An apology piece presenting Muslims as the victims when if anything they have been the oppressors in Egypt for centuries, but then it is just typical of theists to cry persecution whenever their privileges are challenged.

    The world is changing and thankfully these retrograde, archaic religions will soon be extinct, along with their deceitful acolytes such as the author of this BS article.

    • Helen4Yemen

      You seem to have on particular religion for attack? What is your problem with Islam? Islam borrows a lot from Judaism.

  • Fasdunkle

    “the beacon that shed its light on the entire world”

    hilarious

  • neluroman

    Well…. my friend, mea culpa, I’ve never heard of Kolkata, but, I am sure, neither you have ever heard of my city, Baia-Mare, Romania. So, it is one to one here. What surprises me the most from you is how on earth you can believe in such a propaganda,” This battle took place as a consequence of the continued persecution the Muslims faced by the Quraish”.Really!!! First off, battle of Badr took place many, many miles away from Medina ( a six days ridding from Medina). So who came to whom? Let me explain on short what the battle of Badr was about. The prophet got a piece of information about a big Meccan caravan heading from Damascus to Mecca. He sent a band of his men to attack it. The Meccans also got wind of his intentions and sent an expeditionary group to defend it. The caravan also had information about this attack and changed the route and escaped. However, the Meccans said to ones others: “It is the right moment we got rid of Muhammad once and forever. My friend, keep in mind this: it was the prophet who would attack over and over again Mecca’s caravans and not the other way around. Unfortunately for Meccans, many of them were reluctant to fight against their children from among the prophet men, so they returned home. Those Meccans who remained to fight were generally middle to old age men. They were not a match for the young and brainwashed Muslims who had no qualms to fight against their own relatives. Therefore, it was a fight, father- against- son, and, normally, the youngsters won. It was terrible, anyhow. My friend, you’ve learn a sugar-cotton version of Islam whereas I’ve learn a real one. Why? That is because I learn from teachers, historians, whereas you learn from preachers, propagandists.And apropos, if you want to find out the truth behind the Battle of Trench, let me know.

    • Zahid

      Your fantasy story that you narrated about Battle of Badr has no basis in Islamic Sources. Quraysh threatened Madina leaders for giving sanctuary to Prophet and his companions. The account of Sa’a bin Muadh with the Quraysh in Mecca says all about battle of badr. Read the Islamic Maghazi Books and the Hadees instead of going to anti-islamic writings and polemical works. My source is Islamic sources and books and your one is Polemical and anti-islamic. Anyways My point was abrogation issue which i have refuted.

      • neluroman

        Zahid, it is not my fantasy, I didn’t make up these stories, they are recorded in Hadiths, which are a very reliable Islamic source.It were not the Quraish tribe’s men who initiated the
        hostilities. All hostilities were initiated by Muhammad and his
        young and brainwashed men. It was Muhammad who kept raiding the Meccan caravans and
        making life impossible for them, forcing them to come to the defense of
        their caravan at Badr. Therefore, accusing the Quirash of persecuting the Muslims for giving sanctuary to the Prophet is preposterous. Muhammad taunted the Meccans, when he was in Mecca, for 13 years and they did not harm him. There is no proof whatsoever that they intended to harm him in Medina. I don’t expect from you to believe me, but I expect from you to think logically. The Quraishs were rich people, living in a prosperous town and making a living from trading different items. The early Muslims were living in a poor town, a farming town, but they were not farmers. They would make a living by attacking the caravans of the rich Quraish tribe. In the aftermath of the Badr Battle the Shura of Anfal was revealed. It begins with :” يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنْ الْأَنْفَالِ قُلْ الْأَنْفَالُ لِلَّهِ وَالرَّسُولِلُ “. ” I ask you oh Muhammad about the spoils of war. The spoils of war belong to Allah and his Messenger”. This Shura is very telling of what the Badr battle was about. You do all sort of mental acrobatics to prove the things were vice versa. You did that because otherwise your entire belief system would crumble. However, my friend, the truth should never be tied to our feelings. Why I’m focusing on Badr Battle and not on abrogation, our initial controversy!The reason is that the Badr Battle is factual, a historical event easy to understand and find the reasons behind it, whereas the abrogation is a matter of high intellectual debate, a much more complex and philosophical issue. And if we cannot attain a common point of view on something that simple as a historical event, we will never get one on a philosophical issue like the abrogation. In other words, the Badr Battle is a test of how much you are commiting to finding the truth and thinking logically.

        • Zahid

          Do you really think I haven’t read Hadees and Biography of the Prophet’s? There is a book named “Battle of the Prophet” written by Ibn Kathir in 11th century which is long before these so-called criticisms from Christian missionary and contemporary Islamophobes. I think you should go and read that book.
          You don’t have to worry about my faith. We are growing at a much higher rate despite all propaganda. ISLAM is so strong that the whole world is against one religion and are still failing to convince the world. Islamophobia is a lucrative industry. People like robert spencer, daniel pipes and pamela Gellar are making full time career bashing ISLAM. If something is a lie you really don’t have to spend your entire life and waste money behind it proving otherwise. Isn’t it??
          I haven’t found any solid argument from you or any reference from Islamic sources that supports your opinion. You are only repeating that which i have already heard in Fox news and CBN 🙂 Nothing new.

          • neluroman

            Yes, I do think you haven’t read “Hadees”. What on earth are you talking about???? Hadees!!!! Maybe you wanted to say, Hadith, ( hadiths English plural or ahadith, Arabian plural). How on earth can someone like you, that passioned by Islam , to make such awkward confusion, like calling Hadiths with such a weird name, “Hadees”? Incredible! And it is not for first time you look so confused about your religion. Earlier in our discuss you confused the Battle of Badr with the Battle of Trench. Ibn Kathir lived in the XIth century. He was not a companion of the Prophet, and his book has little value as a credible source of information regarding the Battle of Badr. It is like learning about Richard III of England reading only what W. Shakespeare wrote one century later. A much more credible source of information about the time of the Prophet is Kab bin Malik. He was a companion of the prophet, a poet, one who wrote about some of the Muhammad’s 72 battles. ” Volume 5, Book 59, Number 287; Narrated by Kab bin Malik: The Apostle had gone out to meet the caravans of Quraish, but Allah caused them (i.e. Muslims) to meet their enemy unexpectedly (with no previous intention).” In other words, the Muslims wanted to meet the caravan but not too those sent by Quraishs to defend it. Why do you think they wanted to meet the caravan? To say:Hello! How are you. How is the weather in Damascus? Is that what think? If something is a lie, you don’t need to spend your life trying to prove it is not, is it? Robert Spencer, Pamela Gellar or Daniel Pipe are taking on Islam because Islam is day by day on news, and, unfortunately, not for good. And they want to tell the people what happens and why. And, yes, they, propagandists or not, are intelligent people, unlike your propagandist Zakir Naik who is…. better I don’t say what he is. ” ISLAM is so strong that the whole world is against one religion and are still failing to convince the world, ” you say. “…. the WORLD ….. failing to convince the WORLD,” your statement is a logical fallacy. My friend, Islam has survived through centuries because of the death penalty for apostasy. If were not for people’s fear for their lives, Allah and his Messager would be today what Zeus and Apollo are – mythical figures confined to books and museums. We in Christianity don’t, kill people for apostasy. If someone wants to leave Christianity, that is not, in fact it has never been, a problem for us. That means a true religion, people are here because they want to., and they free to leave at any time they want without any restriction. But in your case, mainly the fear is what keeps you together.

          • Zahid

            Relax. Why you getting hyper 🙂
            I have written arabic pronunciation- “HADEES”.

            Now, please don’t lecture me on what is authentic and what is inauthentic. Ibn Kathir while writing the book referred to Islamic sources and also previous scholars. Before accusing someone atleast read his works. He dedicated his entire life. You can ask any Muslim scholar about his works.He is an erudite scholar. He is much appreciated in Islamic studies.

            You have mentioned kab malik’s narration in Sahih al-Bukhari 3951. Well, read the detail of this hadees in Ibn Ishaq’s work Sirat Rasul Allah – The Life of Muhammad , page 286 – 288.And also in The History of al-Tabari: The Foundation of the Community: Muhammad at al-Madina: volume 7, page 21 – 22. You will get detail picture about caravan raid. And Prophet himself didn’t been to that raid, instead entrusted 8 men with this task to monitor and gather information what the Quraysh were doing. Abd’Allah b. Jahsh al-Asadi was the captain of this 8 men team. And he himself narrated what Prophet has said to him. He also got rebuked by the Prophet and other Companions who didn’t participate in this journey, on failing to act exactly according to the word given them by the Prophet, to gather information on the enemy, nothing else.Study the reference given. You will get full picture.

            You know what, the asian sub-continent(Pakistan,Bangladesh,India) and south east asia(Indonesia,Malaysia) has been the home of more than 60% of world’s Muslims. And none of these nation has apostacy law. So please next time don’t use such rubbish arguments. There’s been surge in Islam in Europe and America too. It ain’t fear, but true faith that keeps us together.

            Christians like you live in a secular country. Had you been in any Biblical nation, apostates would have been killed. Punishment for apostates is there in the bible. Read Deuteronomy 13:6-11. Now please don’t scream and say oh that is Old testament and Mosaic law. Remember 2 Timothy 3:16-17 and Matthew 5:17 :)Remember that paul wrote 2 Timothy when none of the Gospels were in existence. He is referring to OT.Bear that in mind.

            Finally,
            Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?

            Leave your mental reservation and biasness aside and Study Islam objectively from it’s original sources. 🙂

          • neluroman

            I don’t ( getting hyper) seriously. I don’t have anything to gain wether you accept what I say or not. On the other hand, you appear to be frustrated as you write down the names of those you don’t like without the due capital letter. I have not such a bias, I respect anyone.

            And what, if the Prophet only gave the orders of raiding the caravan but not participated in the raid, that exonerates him of any blame!!! I tell you once again, the prophet and his adepts in Medina made a living by plundering the Meccans’ caravans. And that doesn’t sound very moral to me and other millions and millions of people. Do you think they were farmers, workers or scientists? No my friend, they were caravan raiders, nothing more nothing less. And a fictional book of someone,Ibn Kathir, who lived 4 centuries later cannot change this perception, can it? Apostasy is punishable by death in Afghanistan, Comoros, Iran, Mauritania, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, and Yemen. It is also illegal in Jordan, Kuwait, Malaysia, the Maldives, Oman, and Qatar. All of these countries either have explicit anti-apostasy laws or decree capital punishment for the broader offense of blasphemy. However, the greatest threat to apostates in the Muslim world derives not from the state, but from exalted mobs who take punishment into their own hands. Why is that? Mostly because all these countries have their constitutions based on instructions the Quran and the Sunna of the Prophet, compiled in the Islamic jurisprudence- Sharia Law. And the Prophet clearly stated: Sahih al Bukari 9:83:17 Allah’s Apostle said, “The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshiped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims.”
            And in Pakistan is even worse, there it works the “blasfemy laws” – laws that clearly don’t apartain to our century. My friend, it doesn’t exist any “Biblical nation” not even Vatican is such a nation. My friend,
            , the violent passages in Deut. certainly do not amount to a standing order to commit violence against the rest of the world. Unlike the Quran, the Bible is a huge collection of documents written by different people at different times in different contexts, which allows for much greater interpretative freedom. The Quran, on the other hand, comes exclusively from one source: Muhammad. It is through the life of Muhammad that the Quran must be understood, as the Quran itself says. His wars and caravan raids both reflect and inform the meaning of the Quran. Furthermore, the strict ad-litteram of the Quran means that there is no room for interpretation when it comes to its violent injunctions. The same can be said about Christianity, as it is through the example of Jesus that Christians interpret their scriptures. To compare the violence in Bible to the violence in Quran it is to compare a dormant vulcan to an active one.The truth, my friend, is that I’ve really studied Islam from its more credible sources: the Quran, Hadiths and Sirah.And the result is that I cannot be fooled by a propagandist like the funny guy, Zakir Naik, as, it seems to me, it is the case with you.

          • Zahid

            You are talking without references and I will certainly not entertain your Alice in Wonderland story. I gave you references and instead of countering those, you came up with your own flimsy opinion.

            I never denied there is no Apostacy Law. But What i claimed is the south asian and sub-continents do not have apostacy laws.You didn’t counter my claims of Muslims in Sub-continent and South -east asia, instead you named few arab nations which has apostacy laws. That certainly don’t answer my question. Also, your argument gets easily debunked, when you see widespread outrage in Muslim nations upon caricature of Prophet. So it is not fear but strong faith that binds us together. So your claim of possible mass exodus holds no water.

            And by the way, there is no Islamic nation. All we have is Muslim majority nation. Because all those countries do not apply shariah in to-to. Not even saudi arab. Because any country ruling by shariah will ban Interest based economy. Saudi too have interest based economy.You made a grave error in saying that arab nations have Islamic law that governs nation. No it is not. What they do have is one or two islamic laws here and there , but not fully.

            Then, you are making your judgement too quick as if you are too desperate in refuting me. I mentioned biblical nation but I also said “HAD YOU”, which infer the meaning of ‘IF’, but I didn’t say there is any Biblical nation.I know that. But you seems to be quite desperate here.

            I think you haven’t read bible.Biblical violence outnumbers Quranic violence.Tom anderson and Philip jenkins has done study on this. have a look at it. Don’t be like an apologist and say oh those are history. Again i would like to remind 2 Timothy 3:16 and Matthew 5:17.At least Quran prohibits killing non-combatants,women,kids,oldies. But Bible holds no barred. You have passages where babies were killed. Jesus ministry hardly last for 3 years. which is very short of time. He didn’t even had a chance.We all know from bible what HE gonna do in his second coming. Prince of Peace will bring out sword and turn brother against brother.No longer will Jesus be a weak and persecuted prophet. Instead, he will hold governmental authority, and is depicted as powerful and mighty. This Jesus will certainly not love his enemies or turn the other cheek to them. In fact, the Bible tells us that Jesus will wage violent warfare against his enemies, and he will mercilessly kill them all. You can say Jesus Christ will bring peace to the world, once and for all. But how this world “peace” is obtained. It is only after slaughtering his opponents and subduing the nations under the foot of the global Christian empire.The events of the Second Coming of Christ are found in the Bible, including the Book of Revelation–which is the last book in the New Testament. Jesus will “judge and wage war” (Rev. 19:11), his robe will be “dipped in blood” (Rev.19:13), and he will be accompanied by “armies” (Rev.19:14) with which he will “strike down the nations” (Rev.19:15), including “the Gentiles” in general and “the nations that were opposed to him” in specific. This will result in the “utter destruction of all his enemies”. Furthermore,“in his second coming he will complete their destruction, when he shall put down all opposing rule, principality, and power.”Jesus will “will release the fierce wrath of God” (Rev 19:15) on them, and “he shall execute the severest judgment on the opposers of his truth”. Because of this, “every tribe on earth will mourn because of him” (Rev. 1:7), and they will “express the inward terror and horror of their minds, at his appearing; they will fear his resentment”. Just as the people of Canaan were terrified by the Israelite war machine, so too would the unbelievers “look with trembling upon Jesus”. This is repeated in the Gospels, that “the Son of man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn” (Matthew 24:30). “All the nations of the world shall wail when he comes to judgment” and the enemies of Jesus “shall mourn at the great calamities coming upon them”.Far from the meek prophet of the First Coming, Jesus on his return will command a very strong military force that will “destroy every ruler, authority, and power”. Not only is this consistent with the legacy of conquests by the Biblical prophets, it is actually a fulfillment or completion of the task that Moses initiated: holy war and conquest in the name of God. In First Corinthians it is prophesied that instead of loving his enemies, Christ will subdue and humble them under his feet. So there you have Jesus’ full picture from your own bible.

            I heard about Zakir Naik, but i haven’t follow him. So stop accusing me.And,Your comments so far doesn’t exhibit that you learn Islam from its original sources.You showed lack of knowledge and also you are diagnosed from COPY-PASTE Syndrome. Any knowledgeable Muslims reading your comments will laugh out.

            PEACE OUT!!

          • neluroman

            Well…. congratulations to you. You managed to perform a nice intellectual ballet to prove that what is right is in fact wrong and vice versa. However, my friend, when it comes to ballet, intellectual or not, I prefer the Swan Lake ballet of Tchaikovsky. yours doesn’t have me aback, quite the contrary, fails to impress me at an intellectual level. That is something normal, as your 1001Nights like fairy tales cannot impress an adult but only a child. “… i claimed is the south asian and sub-continents do not have apostacy laws, you claim. Seriously Are you sure? Pakistan has blasphemy laws, worse than apostasy laws. And were is Pakistan located? In Europe!!! More than that, as I stated in my previous commentary, the apostasy laws are part of the Sharia Laws. You claim that Sharia Law is not fully implemented all over the Islamic world. Yes, Shariah cannot be totally implemented, for mainly economic reasons, but that doesn’t mean that apostasy law, as part of Shariah Law, is also excluded. In fact, from “The Cairo Declaration on Human Rights, signed by 57 Muslim states, we realize that the Muslim countries base their legal systems on Sharia Law. Article 19, 24 and 25 from Declaration stipulate:”There shall be no crime or punishment except as provided for in the Shari’ah/All the rights and freedoms stipulated in this Declaration are subject to the Islamic Shari’ah/The Islamic Shari’ah is the only source of reference for the explanation or clarification of any of the articles of this Declaration.”
            Sharia law is the political implementation of the Islamic doctrine, and this thing is clearly stated in the book, “The Reliance of the Traveller”- a very well written book of the 14th century Persian author, Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri. The book is a reliable manual of what Shariah Law means for the Islamic world. It covers themes of political control of non-Muslims, prayer, jihad, wills and estates, punishment, court rules, and land use. It also deals with legalities and theology within the Shariah Laws. My friend, you should read it to get a bigger picture of what your religion is about, and may be thus you will know that I know what Islams stands for, and stop performing your taqiyya (divine lie) upon me. in fact many of the conflicts in the Islamic world are due to the fact that normal people (the reasonable Muslims) cannot implement Shariah Law completely, whereas the abnormal people(the terrorists) fight against them for a completely implementation of Shariah.In other order of ideas if you knew that there were not “Biblical nations” how is it you asked me to figure out how would be for me to live in a Biblical nation? Again you fell prey to logical fallacy.
            ” .. Biblical violence outnumbers Quranic violence.” you claim Seriously!!! It seems to me, my friend, that you forgot that the Quran is part of a trilogy,: Quran, Hadith and Sirah, but only (approximately 14% of it) . The Quran without Hadith and Sirah is like Sahara desert without sand. Therefore, if we add to the Quran violence the violence in Hadith and Sirah, you are the champions of champions. “At least Quran prohibits killing non-combatants,women,kids,oldies,” you claim. Really!!! How is it then that the Prophet didn’t know of the Quranic prohibitions? Or maybe he knew but he chose to ignore it. For example: He approved the use of catapults over besieged people even if he knew very well that catapults as weapons kill indiscriminately. What is worse is that today, the Islamic terrorists use his behaviour as an excuse for killing also indiscriminately.
            What about the second coming of Jesus, it was Matthew, Luca or Timothy who wrote about it, but they didn’t quote Jesus. It is their perception and not Jesus’. When it comes to future the people predictions, irrespective of who might them, are always into a nebulous. We, the Christians, use to live in present, learn from past and dream about future. That is why we discovered so much about the God’s creation. You, the Muslims have not such a freedom. Because the Quran is supposed to be the verbatim of God, and as our moral values improves, as does our scientific knowledge you lose the much part of your energy trying to prove that everything revealed in the Quran, frozen in timp, stands up to the challenge of the new scientific reality and our improved perception of what is good and what is wrong.That is why 1.5 billion Musloms have got only 7 Noble Prizes, while 1.5 million Jews have got more than 160 Nobel Prizes.. Are the Jews smarter than you? No, of course, they are not. Then, from where this difference? It is about your lost energy trying to help God, as if the maker of the universe would need your help, and about your desperate attempts to prove that the quranic God is right in rapport of human knowledge. It is the right moment for you to have an intellectual revolution, to live in present not in past or in future.
            Think about!